Captured He 178 at Wright Field?!?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I do not believe that the He 178 made it out of Germany. I think it was destroyed. Why, because that is all I have ever read to this date.

Now having said that, it would not suprise me if some did get out. If I recall Udets plane that used to be in the museum along with a Me 309 that were supposedly destroyed in the museum have recently turned up in Poland.

[MONDARIZ]

I don't belive it made it out of Germany either, but I'm wondering if the destruction story is true, or it got lost with the rest of the collection.

Had it made it to Wright Field, we would all have heard about it.

[kool kitty89]

Yep.


Another thing I noticed is that the original smaller elliptical wing seems to be present with the pictures fixed landing gear, and the longer span tapered wings on almost all the others.


And some more info: http://www.cressnet.ir/Journals/J_EN...2000_APRIL.pdf

[MONDARIZ]

After reading it again in Kool Kittys link, Im struck by the lack of foresight shown by a number of Germanys leading aviation experts.

Fair enough they didn't consider the aircraft fit for combat, but disregarding the technology completely......

Reminds me of the story of Bell's telephone demonstration, where observers from the major US telegraph co found it kinda cute, but without any commercial value.

[kool kitty89]

There was the other site too: Origins of German jet power

But as Delcyros mentioned on a thread a while back, there were so many radical ideas being proposed it was hard to tell the realistic ones (jets for example) from the crazy ones. (death rays etc)

There's also the fact that the RLM was conservative in this context. In fact many were interested, Udet for example was very supportive of Heinkel's jets (though he was totally against a rocket powered fighter due to the dangers, and seeing the Me 163 he was right), but the Higher-ups in the RLM and Nazi leadership didn't much like Heinkel (known for his anti Nazi views) and they were also frustrated with his continual private development of fighters and experimental a/c when they wanted more bombers, and the He 177... (another RLM mistake)

Compounded with this was the fact that the RLM already had a prefrence for Messersmitt (particularly fighters), hence the results with the Fw 187 and He 100. (the Fw 190 managing to break the "Messersmitt Monopoly" due to the choice of engine)

And there were political problems in Britain and the US as well. (and the Soviet story is something else)

But we've discussed this elsewhere, I wrote a nice overview here:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...n-12424-7.html (Mistakes in Aviation)


And some interesting clips:
YouTube - Heinkel He 280 voo
YouTube - Heinkel He-280
YouTube - Heinkel He 178

YouTube - Luftwaffe - Heinkel 280, ME 262 & ME 163 komet jets WW2
YouTube - spottydog4472's Videos

[Kruska]

Originally Posted by MONDARIZ

After reading it again in Kool Kittys link, Im struck by the lack of foresight shown by a number of Germanys leading aviation experts.

Fair enough they didn't consider the aircraft fit for combat, but disregarding the technology completely......

It is not about Germany's aviation experts disregarding technology, but as someone formulated it very correctly in a book; Hitler was a man of the 19th century not of the 20th.

Regards
Kruska

[kool kitty89]

It wasn't just Hitler though, there was a wole convoluted political mess winin the RLM on the topic of jets, and more on Heinkel, and Messersmitt on there own.

Hitler certainly didn't help though. (just like the use of the Me 262 as a bomber, while this wasn't the main reason for the lagging production it was certainly not a help along with all the other political and technical problems)
And these were more pronounced on Heinkel's programs.

And while the political problems of the US and UK jet programs were of a different nature, the Soviets' situation in many ways was similar to Germany.
And Stallin didn't help there either.
And Yakolev had considerable influence in it too, seeing what happened to the excellent (1944-1946) Su 9/11/13.

And one thing to note on the Soviet projects is they started genuine serious studies ( '20's) and development ('30's) and recieved government intrest before any other country, ironically they ended up being one of the last of the major players to actually fly their own jet, and then on copied engines.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...09&type=po st

The Russians first started work on jets in the early 1920s. They set up a specialized gas turbine engine reserach group in 1926 and in 1930 the group was headed by V Oovarov. At that time, the primary focus was on turboprop engines and, in 1936, the group developed the 1,150 shp GTU-3 turboprop that was proposed as a powerplant for the TB-3 bomber. The prototypes of the GTU-3 were first test-flown in 1938. That year, the group split into two parts, one of which developed turboprops, the other of which started work on turbojets. That part was headed by Arkhip Mikhailovich Lyulka. By 1941, he had developed the RD-1 jet engine that delivered 1,100 pounds of thrust. Meanwhile, the Oovarov group were assembling a turboprop that could deliver 4,400 shp.

An indepth view on the Soviet designs: Russian Aviation Page: Russian Jet Technology 1937-45

some early Russian designs: M.Gudkov’s projects

more engine stuff: Jets45-Engines

And the first serious Soviet jet design: Gu-VRD


Some on the US: ch3

Whittle: A TRIBUTE TO A CAMBRIDGE ENGINEERINGSTUDENT


Some good German jet info o this thread: The soc-history-war-world-war-ii November 2006 Archive by thread



Some books: German Jet Engine and Gas Turbine ... - Google Book Search
Hans Von Ohain: Elegance in Flight - Google Book Search
The Jet Race and the Second World War - Google Book Search