Captured He 178 at Wright Field?!?

kool kitty89 · 05-04-2008, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Meanwhile the laboratories of the Engineering Division continued efforts to improve aircraft performance. By the end of 1943, there were well over 800 major and thousands of minor projects ongoing at Wright Field. Studying the technology from a captured German Heinkel He 178, the first jet-powered aircraft, engineers and scientists refined and tested the jet engine, culminating in the production of the Bell XP-59A Airacomet, the Army Air Forces' first jet.

What's the deal with this? It doesn't seem to match anything I've read (both He 178's destroyed durring the war, some say the V-2 wasn't completed)

And I've never read anything saying the US captured or tested one.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 05-05-2008, 12:35 AM

I was never aware of this either. I thought they were in museums in Berlin and destroyed when the Museums were bombed.

kool kitty89 · 05-05-2008, 01:09 AM

Same here, and I can't seem to find refrence of it elsewhere.

Kruska · 05-05-2008, 02:19 AM

Hello aviation enthusiasts,

On 31st February 1943, I remember it as a cold day, Mr. Jim, Jimmy and Jim Bo from a very, very secret organization (Only Roosevelt and his wife knew about them) identifying themselves as Mr. Schmitt, Schmidt and Schmid transported the crates of a He-178 designated as “Historical Artifacts Berlin” to Switzerland using H. Goerings plunder train (in order not to arouse suspicion). From there, via. Spain, Portugal (using a secret super C-47 with extended range) – BTW (best a/c of WW2) - , the crates reached Atlanta (this city was chosen due to its conspiracy theory similarity to Atlantis) the crates were then relabeled as “Spec.Property of Frank Whittle, England” and transported to Wright Field.

This is how the “rumor” came up from 1943 onward - spread by a trucker - about England helping the US in the development of “something spec.” This “spec” was later interpreted as Strong Propulsion & Engine Combustion.

Actually the crates were never opened because everybody was dearly and impatiantly awaiting a shipment declared as “Historical Artifacts Berlin”. It was not until recently that a cleaner looking for a place to take a leak……. sorry but I might endanger myself If I continue to give further details on ……..

Regards
……….

Kruska · 05-05-2008, 02:22 AM

Oh good Lord, somebody has used my avatar to send this message, it wasn’t me,really…

Regards
Kruska

Njaco · 05-05-2008, 05:49 AM

kool kitty89 · 05-05-2008, 03:47 PM

But if you want to open the who invented it/ who stole the design claims just look at the designs. (some of whittles designs look very odd, as are some of ohains but completely different)

A TRIBUTE TO A CAMBRIDGE ENGINEERINGSTUDENT look as some of the design changes, particularly the 2nd prototype design!

And Ohain's designs Origins of German jet power

But Halford was the only one of the early designers who actually "copied" an other's design and then by simplifying the original whittle patent design, and then in the sense that he based the design on the preliminary layout of the patent design. (which Whittle had already changed by deleting the axial stages and switching to a 2-sided impeller and reverse-flow combustors; Halford keeping the single-sided impeller but eliminating the axial stages as well)

The original 1930 Whittle patent

But seriously, does anyone know if that's real, or did they just make an egregious error.

Is seems odd with the writer's credentials and the publisher.

Arming the Skies

Quote:

Christopher L. Siebert, a native of St. Mary's, Ohio, is a graduate of Wright State University. While majoring in history there, he served a summer internship with the Aeronautical Systems Center History Office

Published in 1995 by the
History Office, Aeronautical Systems Center

Soren · 05-05-2008, 05:23 PM

AFAIK the He-178 was severely damaged by Allied bombing, but no versions of it were never captured.

kool kitty89 · 05-05-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

no versions of it were never captured.

Typo

But that's what I thought, I'm just wondering why he would write that it's a pretty bigh mistake. Also it makes it sound like the US engeneers developed the XP-59A from data gained from the He 178 and its powerplant.

Quote:

Studying the technology from a captured German Heinkel He 178, the first jet-powered aircraft, engineers and scientists refined and tested the jet engine, culminating in the production of the Bell XP-59A Airacomet, the Army Air Forces' first jet.

Soren · 05-05-2008, 11:14 PM

Whoops, what a difference a single letter can make

Hilarious typo though

MONDARIZ · 05-06-2008, 02:10 AM

Strange altogether.

I found this on wiki commons. Note the picture is marked USAF He-178....

Image:Ohain USAF He 178 page60.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

kool kitty89 · 05-06-2008, 05:20 PM

Looks like the same pic. (a few versions floating around listed as different things ) Though some obviously uninformed. (saying the V2 was the version with retractable gear; the V1 had retractable gear, but initially it was flown fixed open) The only difference I think with the V2 was it was to have the longer wing.

Does anyone recognise the type of hangars in the background. (are there distinguishing characteristics for the US?)

Kruska · 05-07-2008, 05:01 AM

Hello MONDARIZ, there is nothing strange,

Literatur: H. Dieter Köhler: Ernst Heinkel, Bernhard & Graefe Verlag Koblenz, 1983

The picture from Wikimedia is exactly the same as the one in the above mentioned book, it is just enlarged and mirrored / negative – see the dot on the three lines on the Gate/Door side, all the shades on the floor and a/c, even the positioning of the carriage -tires/tarmac joints are exactly the same.

Attachment 62658

Attachment 62659

As D.A.I.G oh well ... Der Adler ist gelandet .... already mentioned in another post, sites such as Wiki... etc. can be added on by others.

Regards
Kruska

kool kitty89 · 05-07-2008, 04:51 PM

Yes but Wiki seems to be more correct than that article, which was published and written by what seems like a reputable author.

MONDARIZ was saying that the wikimedia pic was labeled as a USAF archive pic:

Quote:

(*'''Description:''' Heinkel He 178 *'''Source:''' USAF This picture may have usage restrictions - PZL-104 {{PD-US}} Category:Experimental aircraft )

And it appears to have been copied/scanned resulting in poor quality.

And again the author,
Arming the Skies

Quote:

Christopher L. Siebert, a native of St. Mary's, Ohio, is a graduate of Wright State University. While majoring in history there, he served a summer internship with the Aeronautical Systems Center History Office

Published in 1995 by the
History Office, Aeronautical Systems Center

MONDARIZ · 05-08-2008, 01:28 AM

I have had a look around and asked in another forum.

There are no other mention of a captured He-178 anywhere. It seems like the website in the OP might have mistaken a few things.

I was going to write them, but they have a disclaimer on their site, saying they no longer maintain the page.

Although I'm sure they did a lot of testing on Wright Field, im also sure they didn't have a He-178 to test. They would have had access to reports from Gloster and Frank Whittle, maybe even some German reasarch papers, but i think that would have been all.