Carrier operations.....

pbfoot · 06-21-2007, 03:51 PM

Recently I was called "crab fat" by some carrier guys in fun (I hope) I know it is derogatory but does anyone know the meaning.

Mike64 · 06-21-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AV8

I think the Midway class COULD oeprate F-14s. But, a Midway class could not both launch and recover at the same time ... and obviously could not carry many F-14s.

The takeoff and landing areas would overlap, but it could be done. The question is, why would anyone DO it?

Larger carriers were MUCH more practical, could carry more fuel and aircraft, And for how long could a Midway-class carrier supply fuel to F-14s?

If I am not mistaken, all you need is 266 feet to launch and a similar but slightly longer area to land. The difference in landing area would be to maneuver the landed aircraft out of the way before the next victim traps ... and, of course, a bolter would be catastrophic without and angled flight deck.

But, it COULD be done, even if VERY inconveniently.

AV8 - I misspoke -

You need about 280 feet from the ramp to the #1 CDP (cross deck pendant), not 110. I was thinking of the sheave to sheave distance of the arresting gear width.

Mike

SlickDriver · 06-21-2007, 05:44 PM

Mike64,

I'm afraid that didn't answer the question at all.

During the war there were basically two sizes of aircraft to be moved fighters (P-39, 40, 47, 51) sized and medium bomber/large fighter (P-38, B-25, 26, A-20, 26) sized aircraft. Large bombers were not transported that way.

And there was two methods to move them on aircraft transports. Storage and Ready to use or fly off.

The 1st method was as you described. All they could fit and not capsize, many times the aircraft were even partially disassembled as well to take up even less deck space. The 2nd method was used to fly off the aircraft. That was done during the landings in the Doolittle Raid, North Africa and many Pacific Islands. These aircraft were not disassembled and the bow of the carrier had sufficient space to fly off the aircraft, even though they were not capable of landing. Their own aircraft usually were the ones that they could carry in their hangers, since Army birds wouldn't fold to fit on the elevators.

I was hoping for a ball park figure of the carrier capacities in the 2 methods. I know that there were 16 B-25s carried on the Hornet.

blu3y4 · 06-22-2007, 07:58 AM

gee it would be fun to be in the middle with a few kamikazees flying at ya.

good times...........................

Mike64 · 06-22-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickDriver

Mike64,

I'm afraid that didn't answer the question at all.

During the war there were basically two sizes of aircraft to be moved fighters (P-39, 40, 47, 51) sized and medium bomber/large fighter (P-38, B-25, 26, A-20, 26) sized aircraft. Large bombers were not transported that way.

And there was two methods to move them on aircraft transports. Storage and Ready to use or fly off.

The 1st method was as you described. All they could fit and not capsize, many times the aircraft were even partially disassembled as well to take up even less deck space. The 2nd method was used to fly off the aircraft. That was done during the landings in the Doolittle Raid, North Africa and many Pacific Islands. These aircraft were not disassembled and the bow of the carrier had sufficient space to fly off the aircraft, even though they were not capable of landing. Their own aircraft usually were the ones that they could carry in their hangers, since Army birds wouldn't fold to fit on the elevators.

I was hoping for a ball park figure of the carrier capacities in the 2 methods. I know that there were 16 B-25s carried on the Hornet.

OK, Slick - I see what you mean now. I thought you meant Carriers that had officially been converted and redesignated as aircraft transports, not for flight operations.

Lucky13 · 06-22-2007, 08:56 AM

Rich,

Could you please tell me what versions of the Grumman Duck that the Yorktown had beside the J2F-1?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 06-22-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu3y4

gee it would be fun to be in the middle with a few kamikazees flying at ya.

good times...........................

Kids....

Gnomey · 06-22-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Kids....

Just what I thought when I saw that..

Lucky13 · 06-22-2007, 03:04 PM

I wouldn't say that it would be FUN to cought in the middle of a Kamikaze attack, I don't think that those that were there found something amusing about it either, on the contrary.... Good times? Certainly not.

renrich · 06-22-2007, 06:08 PM

Great pictures! Anyone remember the story of the original Essex and the Phoebe and Cherub? Speaking of the F111B, I once knew a retired Navy Captain Jim Swope. He was flying Wildcats when Pearl Harbor happened, had 9.5 or 10 kills in the Pacific and his last job in the Navy was as a project officer on McNamara's Folly, the F111B. Anyone else know him?

blu3y4 · 06-23-2007, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky13

I wouldn't say that it would be FUN to cought in the middle of a Kamikaze attack, I don't think that those that were there found something amusing about it either, on the contrary.... Good times? Certainly not.

hmm, i figured that, my origional comment may have had some sarcasm in it.

R Leonard · 06-26-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Could you please tell me what versions of the Grumman Duck that the Yorktown had beside the J2F-1?

A re-check of my records show Yorktown, on 31 Dec 1941, with two J2F-5 and one SOC-1. Also aboard, in VS-5, were two SNJ-3. How long these remained aboard after movement to the Pacific, I don’t know.

Rich

Lucky13 · 06-26-2007, 11:51 AM

Thank you Rich... What do you know of the earlier models of the Grumman Duck on the Yorktown like F-1, F-2, etc.?

R Leonard · 06-26-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrich

Great pictures! Anyone remember the story of the original Essex and the Phoebe and Cherub? Speaking of the F111B, I once knew a retired Navy Captain Jim Swope. He was flying Wildcats when Pearl Harbor happened, had 9.5 or 10 kills in the Pacific and his last job in the Navy was as a project officer on McNamara's Folly, the F111B. Anyone else know him?

I knew Jim Swope. He was a 1st and 2nd tour VF-11 Sun Downer (note my avatar). In the first tour, out of Cactus One on Guadalcanal he flew in the 1st Division on LCDR Clarence White’s (the squadron CO) wing. The other two members of the division were George Ricker and Charlie Stimpson. Side numbers on their F4F-4’s were white F1, F2, F3, and F4, respectively. My father was the squadron flight officer in that 1st tour and led the 6th division which consisted of himself, Al Jones, Vern Graham, and Bob Gilbert (#’s F21, F22, F23, and F24). Anyway, Swope scored 4.66 in the first tour and 5.0 in the second (in F6Fs off USS Hornet). Swope was seen around our house on occasion when he and Dad were still on active duty.

Regards,

Rich

R Leonard · 06-26-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Thank you Rich... What do you know of the earlier models of the Grumman Duck on the Yorktown like F-1, F-2, etc.?

Utility aircraft aboard USS Yorktown:
June 1937:
Two J2F-1 and three O3U-3

June 1938:
Two J2F-1 and three O3U-3

June 1939:
Two J2F-2 and three O3U-3
plus one SBC-3 for the CAG and two SBC-3 and two SU-3 as squadron hacks for VF-5

June 1940:
Two O3U-3, two J2F-4, two SOC-2, and one SBC-3
plus one SB2U-3 for the CAG and sq uadron hacks: VB-5, one SBC-3 and VF-5, one SBC-3