Convergence of fighter guns.

Magister · 12-23-2005, 01:26 PM

I am curious about the range at which the wing mounted machine guns on American fighters were set to converge. Did all the guns converge at the same point or did some converge at a closer or farther point?

Also, were they all set to converge on the same flat, level plane consistent with the gun mounts themselves or did some fire higher or lower at the convergence point?

syscom3 · 12-23-2005, 01:56 PM

I believe it was 300 yards convergence

Gnomey · 12-23-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

I believe it was 300 yards convergence

That was the standard although some pilots prefered to have the guns converge closer (normally around 200-250 yards).

FLYBOYJ · 12-23-2005, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnomey

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

I believe it was 300 yards convergence

That was the standard although some pilots prefered to have the guns converge closer (normally around 200-250 yards).

correct...

Magister · 12-23-2005, 06:51 PM

Of course it would depend on where the strikes were (as would be the case with a 20mm) but does anyone know on average, how many strikes were reqired of .50 cal. rounds to bring an axis fighter down?

FLYBOYJ · 12-23-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magister

Of course it would depend on where the strikes were (as would be the case with a 20mm) but does anyone know on average, how many strikes were reqired of .50 cal. rounds to bring an axis fighter down?

One if you hit the pilot!

Are you talking a Zero or a FW-190, Oscar or MC-200? I don't think any one ever kept statistics by rounds....

Magister · 12-23-2005, 07:32 PM

There was data (rough) developed as to the average number of 20mm and 30mm hits it took to bring down a heavy allied bomber. I was just wondering if anyone had heard any similar rough data concerning the .50 against any axis fighters.

V-1710 · 12-24-2005, 01:07 AM

I have too heard anywhere between 250 and 300 yds., depending on the pilot's preference. One of the advantages of the P-38...........

loomaluftwaffe · 12-24-2005, 03:31 AM

concentrated firepower, unlike most allied fighters.

i know 1-2 bursts will bring down a ki-43 or a zero

Lunatic · 12-25-2005, 05:13 PM

Normally guns were set to converge at 800 feet. They were usually also set to converge into a "box", i.e. for 6 guns, 2 would be aimed dead on, two a little higher, and two a little higher still.

With convergence set at 800 feet, the "kill zone" ranges from about 400 feet to about 1200 feet. At these ranges, the left and right streams are half or less there wing spacing apart. At closer ranges, you don't need so many hits, and at longer ranges, scoring at all was difficult.

Some pilots did set the convergence closer, but not many - there was little utility in it. More pilots had it set longer, mostly when they were expecting to strafe ground targets. For strafing, convergences of 1500-2000 feet, or infinity (ie no convergence) were often used.

When the K-14 gunsight came out, convergences were generally increased to about 1000-1200 feet.

=S=

Lunatic

wmaxt · 12-25-2005, 05:20 PM

I've heard about 250yrds. the P-47 frequently had two one set of four at 250 and the other set of four at 350yrds. Ring's P.R. O. Doc's research Page http://prodocs.netfirms.com/ has a diagram.

The P-38 had all guns in the nose and had kills that were reportedly at 1,000yrds.

wmaxt

Lunatic · 12-26-2005, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmaxt

I've heard about 250yrds. the P-47 frequently had two one set of four at 250 and the other set of four at 350yrds. Ring's P.R. O. Doc's research Page http://prodocs.netfirms.com/ has a diagram.

The P-38 had all guns in the nose and had kills that were reportedly at 1,000yrds.

wmaxt

Yes, the P-47 did often use two convergence settings. The 6 wing gun planes generally did not.

There are documented cases of the P-47 (and probably P-51's) scoring kills at 800+ yards. When the K-14 came into action, effective range increased. Often the enemy thought he was out of range and got walluped.

=S=

Lunatic

wmaxt · 12-26-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatic

There are documented cases of the P-47 (and probably P-51's) scoring kills at 800+ yards. When the K-14 came into action, effective range increased. Often the enemy thought he was out of range and got walluped.

=S=

Lunatic

The pilots who got hits at extream ranges were exceptional shots with the P-38 and even more so with converging guns of a P-47/P-51 where you only got a couple of guns on the target. It also demonstrates the effectiveness of the .50 gun.

wmaxt

Dogwalker · 12-26-2005, 05:46 PM

I read that convergence for P51 was usually set at 300 yards, and 2 degrees above.

DogW

Lunatic · 12-27-2005, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmaxt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatic

There are documented cases of the P-47 (and probably P-51's) scoring kills at 800+ yards. When the K-14 came into action, effective range increased. Often the enemy thought he was out of range and got walluped.

=S=

Lunatic

The pilots who got hits at extream ranges were exceptional shots with the P-38 and even more so with converging guns of a P-47/P-51 where you only got a couple of guns on the target. It also demonstrates the effectiveness of the .50 gun.

wmaxt

After the computing gunsights came out, some squadrons set their convergences out at over 400 yards. This was later in the war and they were doing more strafing - longer convergence is better for strafing where you want to start firing at 1000 yards or even more.

Somewhere I have a documented case of a P-47 pilot scoring two kills from 800+ yards in the same sortie. In both cases the target did not even try to evade until it was too late, the pilot thinking he was safe. The range when using the K-14 gunsight is displayed as the ranging knob is twisted to put the ring on the target.

Against a non evading target the K-14 was totally devestating, allowing almost a sure kill even at quite long range. If the pipper was on the target and the ring was set to the proper wingspan and fitted to the target you practically could not miss.

=S=

Lunatic