DB601 and BD603 engines

[Marshall_Stack]

Which aircraft do you think made the best use of these engines? I have read that the Italian fighters with the Daimler-Benz engines may be on par or better than the ME-109. The Ki-61 (Tony) may have been a better aircraft if they didn't have problems with the DB601 overheating.

[Njaco]

I think the Db engines used in Japanese a/c were made under license and may have not been of the same quality as the German manufactured ones.

[timshatz]

Heard the same thing about the Japanese engines. Had bugs they needed to work out and had a lot of problems. Plus, they had a small number of techs to actually fix the things (most Japanese aircraft had radial engines). Shortage of competent mechanics meant centralized repairs. It got so bad that an engine change required the airplane being sent from New Guniea to the Phillipines to get it done. Something like that could be done on the airfield by American techs. Not so the Japanese. But then again, they never did get the logistics of the Pacific War even close to right.

The Italian birds were a later design. Probably had all the advantages of aquired aeronatuical design. It may give reason for superior performance in some realms.

Still, the 109 was an old design but a pretty good one. While definitely long in the tooth by 1945 (and reaching the upper end of it's design possibilities), it was still a very good aircraft for it's time. Says as much about the engineering ability of the guys working on it as it does about the design.

[Soren]

The 109 design was better than all of them IMO.

The only problem plaqueing the 109 was the high aileron control forces, something which could've possibly been solved if the wire control was changed to a push rod design.

Imagine a Bf-109 with the featherlike control forces of a Fw-190, now that would beat most late war fighters.

[claidemore]

Just to clarify, the Italians used license built copies of the DB601 and DB605, not the DB603. The 603 was used on large German bombers like the Do217 and 335, as well as on the Ta152C. It was tested on the Fiat G55 but never put into production on that aircraft.

On that note, the Fiat G55 was tested vs the FW 190A5 and Bf 109G4, and bested both of them, causing the German officers who were involved in those tests to recommend it replace both German fighters poste haste! (Milch, Petersen and Galland)

One of the design limitations of the Bf109 airframe was that it could not be modified to accept the larger DB603 engine, something the Ta152 and G55 could. Other things like limited armament configurations, high elevator forces at high speeds, cramped cockpit, poor vision, no capability to use improved 'bubble' vision canopy, high aoa on landing, and high skill/training level for effective or safe operation were also indicators of the 109 being at the full extent of it's development potential.