Death Trap Aircraft

daishi12 · 08-06-2006, 03:46 PM

I have looked through some of the previous threads and seen that there have been the best/worst aircraft of WW2 which got me thinking a little bit.

I seem to recall reading that the Bristol Beaufighter was considered to be a death trap of an aircraft, as it was very difficult to bail out of.

Also the P39 Airacobra with the side door exit in stead of the canopy would be difficult to get out of when in flight due to the fact that there would be considerable slipstream acting on the doors. The pilots would need muscles like Popeye!

Were any other WW2 aircraft considered to be death traps by the poor sods who had to fly them?

plan_D · 08-06-2006, 04:15 PM

The Ventura was considered a death-trap by the RAF. And was quickly removed from service.

Jabberwocky · 08-06-2006, 04:37 PM

RAF: Battle, Blenhiem (over Europe anyway)

LuftWaffe: Me-210, He-117

USA: F2A, SBD

VVS: I-16, I-153, LaGG-3 ("wooden, varnished coffin")

V-1710 · 08-06-2006, 05:23 PM

The SBD Dauntless had the lowest loss ratio of any U.S. Navy carrier based combat aircraft. Never heard it was hard to bail out of. As for the P-39, as long as it wasn't in a spin.......

k9kiwi · 08-06-2006, 06:16 PM

Mosquito FB was not considered very much fun for crew when it came to leaving home.

1 hatch for both of them to dive out head first with the propellers a couple of inches from your head.

Apparently it was rather disconcerting and collected more than 1 or 2 aircrew.

Also the Lancaster. One belly hatch way the heck up in the nose, not great for the Mid Upper and Tail Gunners in an aircraft spiraling earthward. climb around turret, get over wing spar, crawl past cockpit, drop into nose section, get out of hole.

The Tail gunner, MIGHT be able to open his turret door reach back, grab his chute, clip it on, rotate the turret and then bail out. But he would be doing the rotating by hand if the port outer engine was gone, as that supplied his turret hydraulics.

The top top hatches, and the pilots hatch could not be used in real terms due to smacking into the Mid Upper Turret.

The crew door meant smacking into the tailplane.

chris mcmillin · 08-07-2006, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

The Ventura was considered a death-trap by the RAF. And was quickly removed from service.

Interesting. The airplane flew for some time in US Navy service after the war and then was adopted as one of the best corporate/business airplanes of all time. The Howard Super Ventura and pressurized Howard 500 was operated for years and years and there are two H500's still active as executive transports.

Can you mention as to what it was that made the Lockheed a death trap?

Chris...

the lancaster kicks ass · 08-07-2006, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9kiwi

Mosquito FB was not considered very much fun for crew when it came to leaving home.

1 hatch for both of them to dive out head first with the propellers a couple of inches from your head.

Apparently it was rather disconcerting and collected more than 1 or 2 aircrew.

Also the Lancaster. One belly hatch way the heck up in the nose, not great for the Mid Upper and Tail Gunners in an aircraft spiraling earthward. climb around turret, get over wing spar, crawl past cockpit, drop into nose section, get out of hole.

The Tail gunner, MIGHT be able to open his turret door reach back, grab his chute, clip it on, rotate the turret and then bail out. But he would be doing the rotating by hand if the port outer engine was gone, as that supplied his turret hydraulics.

The top top hatches, and the pilots hatch could not be used in real terms due to smacking into the Mid Upper Turret.

The crew door meant smacking into the tailplane.

i thought someone would mention the lanc when i saw the thread's title, it wasn't all that bad, no crew members had to pass over the biggest obsticle, the main wing spar, the 5 formost crew members all exited through the hatch in the nose, the primary means of escape, the two gunners in the rear section of the plance had a choice, they could, if the pilot was trying to hold the plane level so others could bail out as they invariably did, they might well decide to climb over the wing spar and exit through the more favourable nose hatch, if not then their designated parachute exit was the main entry door, although as you say there was a slight chance of hitting the tail plane, however i've never heard of this happening and stories of it happening cirtainly weren't widespread, it seems there was enough room to get clear of the tail plane, and the top hatches were never to be used as parachutes, they were strictly for use in the event of ditching in the sea or a crash landing............

plan_D · 08-07-2006, 08:23 AM

Air-Vice Marshall Embry commenting on the Lockheed Ventura : "...thoroughly bad, being slow, heavy, unmanoeuvrable and lacking in good defensive armament." Known as the 'Flying Pig'.

syscom3 · 08-07-2006, 09:15 AM

The P39 wins hands down. Its weird habit of tumbling raised the possibility of the pilot being unable to get out.

Smokey · 08-07-2006, 10:06 AM

It depends on the situation. Apart from the P 39, single seat fighters were among the best aircraft to bail out from if you enough height to roll the aircraft upside down and drop out of the cockpit. The FW 190 had an excellent roll rate at some speeds and explosive bolts for the canopy. Ejection seats were appearing on some aircraft in the last months of the war (Heinkel He 162, Dornier Do 335)

Here is a Heinkel He 162 ejection seat from this site

Heinkel 162 Ejection Seat: The Ejection Site

syscom3 · 08-07-2006, 10:54 AM

P38's were also hard to bail out of.

Marshall_Stack · 08-07-2006, 12:08 PM

Bailing out of a P-38...be careful of the horizontal tail boom.

red admiral · 08-07-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Apart from the P 39, single seat fighters were among the best aircraft to bail out from if you enough height to roll the aircraft upside down and drop out of the cockpit.

The other single seat fighters don't crush the pilot to death when he crash lands and the engine moves forwards.

timshatz · 08-07-2006, 12:33 PM

Bailing out of anything is probably a pretty hairy experience. While a single engined fighter might be the least dangerous, you're still looking at broken arms, legs, backs, ect. when they bounce of the horizontal or vertical stabelizers or getting some part of your chute snagged on a part of the bird on the way out.

Turning it upside down and falling out is the easiest (and avoids any problems with the prop as the drag will slow you down right away- people being very draggy against the wind, in general) you could still bounce of the tail. I think that is what happened to that German ace in the desert during WW2. Took him right out.

Once read that the best way to get out of a P39 was to open both doors and let the slipstream suck you right out.

k9kiwi · 08-07-2006, 04:35 PM

About 20 years ago I got talking to a gentleman who had been invited to NZ after WW2 by an RNZAF pilot to set up one of the first top dressing businesses flying tiger moths.

He flew 109's over england, france and germany, including being shot down 4 or 5 times. Had just over 20 victories if memory serves me, and I can not remember his name.

He said the worst part about bailing out was not knowing if your parachute had been shot to ribbons, and that the relief of it opening in one piece was intense.

So getting out was only part of the trick apparently.