DO-335 VS TA-152

[SoD Stitch]

Originally Posted by KrazyKraut

How bad would the extra 2 MK 103s have affected its performance though? The advantage I see is that it could've made it home in case defensive gunners disabled the forward engine (though that would make it easy prey for escorting fighters). Considering the two DB-603s could power two of the later Fw 109 Doras or Ta-152 Cs, those may have been the better application. The Do could've made a good nightfighter and fast bomber (then again the Ar 234 was still better at that). The question is how bad of a bottleneck the engines were compared to airframes and pilot availability.

I don't know how badly the additional armament would've affected the 335's performance, probably not that much; the 335 was already fairly heavy (almost 20,000 lbs. all up), so a couple of 500 lbs. cannons probably wouldn't have made much difference. Also, they had streamlined fairings over the barrels, so there probably was very little drag penalty associated with the long-barrelled (lang) Mk 103's (see picture below).

As for the engines, the Doras and the -152's used the more powerful Jumo Ju 213, not the DB 603, so there was no conflict there; in fact, IMHO, the 335 probably would've been a better a/c with Ju 213's, but they were all going to the Doras, the -152's, and the Ju 188 at the end of the War, so they weren't available for the 335.

And, yes, the -335 would've made an excellent nachtjager, especially with the heavier armament installed. There was actually one nachtjager version (A-6) completed before the end of the War, but it never left the factory.

[KrazyKraut]

Originally Posted by SoD Stitch

As for the engines, the Doras and the -152's used the more powerful Jumo Ju 213, not the DB 603, so there was no conflict there; in fact, IMHO, the 335 probably would've been a better a/c with Ju 213's, but they were all going to the Doras, the -152's, and the Ju 188 at the end of the War, so they weren't available for the 335.

The Ta 152 C (3-5 prototypes iirc) and according to some sources the Fw 190 D-15 (projected) were designed around the DB 603, though. Tank favoured the DB 603 over the Jumo, it was better at high altitude and had a better potential for further development.

[HoHun]

Hi Krazykraut,

>How bad would the extra 2 MK 103s have affected its performance though?

As I pointed out above, both Regnat and Griehl in their books on the type note that W.-Nr. 23014 - a pattern aircraft for the Do 335B-2 destroyer series equipped with the MK103 wing guns - when tested by the French on 25.4.1947 achieved 700 km/h at 1.5 km altitude.

That's about 30 km/h faster than the speeds I indicated above, in spite of the additional drag of the wing cannon.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[HoHun]

Hi Krazykraut,

>There actually was a direct comparison in a recent issue of a German aircraft magazine (Flugzeug Revue??), maybe someone's got the issue? I seem to recall the data for the Do 335 was all projected though.

The reason for the need to project data was that the investigated version was the Do 335C with enlarged wing of 45.5 m^2 for which no flight data was available.

Both Focke-Wulf and Dornier were asked to prepare a calculation based on their companies' standard methods for identical parameters for the Ta 152H and the Do 335C.

Both companies agreed that the Do 335 would be 33 km/h faster than the Ta 152H at sea level with both aircraft at emergency power, and 53 km/h (Focke-Wulf) or 58 km/h (Dornier) faster at full throttle height.

The Dornier calculations for the Do 335C from the reproduced speed graph show an absolute emergency power top speed of about 772 km/h @ 11.5 km.

There are more figures in the article, but in my opinion the article is rather confusing and I wish Hermann had published at least two or three pages besides the Dornier speed graph from the original reports to help me make sense of the figures.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Erich]

the Do 335 as a night fighter would of been dropped there was no need for it when the Me 262B-2a was ready that I have tech data and will be included in my book. the Do 335 was not ready to include AI as well in the prototype stage and sadly for the much larger bird no operational testing which I still go back to and yes it's a thorn in your flesh but without the proof needed, it all becomes speculation gentlemen. the single seat 262 had already proven itself the twin seater as well in a short two months of action. too bad I cannot become more positive about all of this concerning the big bird ........

[Kurfürst]

Hmmm, would not the Do 335s greater endurance come in handy for night-fighting purposes vs the higher top speed of the Me 262, which OTOH had very short endurance in comparison?

I kinda like the Do 335. The Zestörer/multi role idea is not a bad thing, but sadly it was not until the Do 335 a design could actually deliver the same performance as SE fighters in a twin-engined design..

[kool kitty89]

If you want longer endurance, there's the Ar 234 to consider. (and there were ways of improving the 262's endurance: drop tanks, switching to BMW 003E's)

[HoHun]

Hi Kurfürst,

>Hmmm, would not the Do 335s greater endurance come in handy for night-fighting purposes vs the higher top speed of the Me 262, which OTOH had very short endurance in comparison?

I believe that for night-fighting, the Dornier Do 335 would have offered a number of advantages over the Messerschmitt Me 262, for example a shorter take-off run, better low-speed thrust, safe single-engine characteristics even in a go-around, a shorter ground run (especially if equipped with a reversible-pitch propeller), and better speed control in the air due to the drag created by the propellers when the throttle is pulled back. Endurance is an advantage as well, though of course a faster aircraft can intercept its target in a shorter time, so the advantage would not be quite as great as one might think at first.

Since night fighters were often flying under adverse conditions, the operational safety offered by the Do 335's unique layout should not be overlooked. At night, a single-engine landing in a Me 262 certainly would be far more difficult (and dangerous) than a single-engine landing in a Do 335.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[dornier335nut]

Originally Posted by Erich

the Do 335 as a night fighter would of been dropped there was no need for it when the Me 262B-2a was ready that I have tech data and will be included in my book.

Erich, which book is this? I'm interested.

Nicholas

[Erich]

Moskito-jagd über Deutschland

it is in preparation ~ of over 30 years of research, I have never spent so much time on anything in all my life ........

E ~

[dornier335nut]

Originally Posted by Erich

Moskito-jagd über Deutschland

it is in preparation ~ of over 30 years of research, I have never spent so much time on anything in all my life ........

E ~

What is it about? Enlighten me please>

[Airframes]

Moskito fighter (hunter) over Germany? Will it be published in English at all Erich, and, if so, do you know yet when it might be released? I understand that this might be a difficult question, as I realise the ways of the publishing world, especially if it is still work in progress. I would be very interested in obtaining a copy.
I can well understand how much work, in fact sheer dedication, you must have put into this. I am hoping to have a novel published soon, and that (almost) drained me, just on the research, double checking and so on. And I only spent about eight months! Thirty years is some dedication! You have my deepest respect and admiration.
Terry.

[Soren]

"Mosquito hunt over Germany" it means

[Airframes]

Ah, got it! I thought it might have been in the context of the FW Moskito hunting, although I realise it didn't see service, or did it? I'm a bit hazy on that part of air operations.
Anyway Erich, I'd still be interested to learn more about your book, whether Moskito or Mosquito!
Terry.

[Soren]

I think it revovles around Germany's anti night fighter force hunting down the De Havilland Mosquito's over Germany which were preying on their own nightfighters. The He-219 Uhu was used in this role as well as Bf-109's & Me-262's, the last two being the most effective.