Dog fights on the History channel - Page 11 - Aircraft of World War II

stasoid · 05-01-2008, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaco

And don't misconstrue the stopping of the Wehrmacht at Moskow as a great Russian triumph. Without overstretched supply lines and change of objectives, the jack-boots would have been heard stomping all the way to the Pacific.

Changing objectives when you're 20 miles away from The Red Square? LOL!

Soviet intelligence in Japan in Fall 1941 repeatedly reported that Japan had no immediate intention to attack USSR. And soon after the Pearl Harbor 20 russian divisions were withdrawn from the Far East and sent to the Eastern Front. Those 20 fresh, well equipped, siberian divisions played decisive role in defeating german armies in the outskirts of Moscow in December 1941, throwing them back 300km away. Nothing else.

marshall · 05-01-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stasoid

Invasion of Poland? Without a single shot fired? What's your defenition of invasion? Why didnt Poland fight back?
Answer is simple: those territories of western Ukraine and Belarus had never belonged to Poland. Poland stole them from Russian Empire thanks to revolutionary chaos in Russia in 1917-20, Stalin returned them back and now those lands are parts of Ukraine and Belarus as they used to be for 1000 years. Poland has never claimed them back.

Ignorance of some people is just shocking...

Soundbreaker Welch? · 05-01-2008, 03:00 PM

I agree.

The Poles didn't want the Russians there. They didn't want liberation. They didn't have a cruel dictator like Saddam Hussein controlling them, until Hitler showed up, and when Stalin took them over he wasn't a whole lot better. They were happy the Russians destroyed the control of Hitler over them, but they would have been much happier if the Russians had left them alone after WWII and didn't establish a Communist State in Poland.

stasoid · 05-01-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundbreaker Welch?

The Poles didn't want the Russians there. They didn't want liberation. They didn't have a cruel dictator like Saddam Hussein controlling them, until Hitler showed up, and when Stalin took them over he wasn't a whole lot better. They were happy the Russians destroyed the control of Hitler over them, but they would have been much happier if the Russians had left them alone after WWII and didn't establish a Communist State in Poland.

I dont think Stalin really wanted to establish a Communist State in Poland (extremely religious people, catholic country, close ties with UK, etc...), but in the Cold War reality he had no other choice. For centuries, invaders from the West had been coming through polish territory, on and on again, so Russia fought wars on its own soil with devastating results for its civilian population. last war claimed 27 million lives. So, maybe Stalin though: enough is enough and he did what he did, guaranteeing peace for his people for at least some time. Sounds cinical now, but those were brutal times and he was a brutal dictator.

If Pols didnt want someone to liberate them, they should have fought, like Serbs and other Yugoslavian peoples did, sacrificing almost 2 million lives.

drgondog · 05-01-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stasoid

I dont think Stalin really wanted to establish a Communist State in Poland (extremely religious people, catholic country, close ties with UK, etc...), but in the Cold War reality he had no other choice.

He specifically agreed to permit free elections in Poland and return sovereignty and self government to the Poles. That was one of many agreements he 'broke'.

He certainly had the 'choice', the commitment and the obligation. He reneged on all three.

For centuries, invaders from the West had been coming through polish territory, on and on again, so Russia fought wars on its own soil with devastating results for its civilian population. last war claimed 27 million lives. So, maybe Stalin though: enough is enough and he did what he did, guaranteeing peace for his people for at least some time. Sounds cinical now, but those were brutal times and he was a brutal dictator.

If Pols didnt want someone to liberate them, they should have fought, like Serbs and other Yugoslavian peoples did, sacrificing almost 2 million lives.

You may recall the Poles uprising in Warsaw, while Uncle Joe held his position and encouraged the Germans to slaughter them.

He 'tolerated' Tito because he was a Communist, not because they 'sacrificed'.

Did you by chance notice any attempts by Austria and West Germany to flee 'en masse' to be part of the great People's Revolution? Or South Korea or Japan or Turkey? When the USSR disintegrated did you see Czechoslovakia or East Germany gleefully embracing a Communistic Government after the blissful years under the boot of the USSR.

I am sure they remembered the good old days under Soviet control an candidly am mystified over them believing personal rights and freedoms had any place in this world. Might you enlighten us?

Udet · 05-01-2008, 08:35 PM

People, please do not disturb this post-communist cockatoo that just entered the forum. His postings are fun.

drgondog · 05-02-2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Udet

People, please do not disturb this post-communist cockatoo that just entered the forum. His postings are fun.

Adrian - as always you cut 'right to the chase'. Give my very best to your sister and invite her to join in the fun!

Bill

kool kitty89 · 05-02-2008, 03:50 AM

This is the same guy that derailed the tank buster discussion in the same manner and same topic...

But on topic I saw the PBS "Secrets of The Dead" Guadalcanal episode tonight. Very interesting.SECRETS OF THE DEAD . Dogfight Over Guadalcanal | PBS http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...akai-5794.html (James "Pug" Southerland vs Saburo Sakai)
Looks like some of the same type of animation they used in Dogfights.

And they had Barrett Tillman, who also regularly apears on Dogfights.

You can see him at 40 sec here YouTube - Dogfights: " Thunderbolt " 1/5

Screaming Eagle · 05-02-2008, 07:23 AM

I just watched that thunderbolt series on youtube recently. Very interesting.

timshatz · 05-02-2008, 09:58 AM

Anybody heard it there is going to be a season 3? Seems unlikely but...

Wayne Little · 05-02-2008, 09:58 AM

Just watched the 'Night Fighters' episode....

kool kitty89 · 05-02-2008, 03:24 PM

It's hard to tell if a new season was postponed by the writers' strike or it was canceled. (or both) The strike would explain the crappy programing (ice rod truckers among others), reality programs filling in w/out writers, at least I hope that's why. (otherwise their programming is really going to hell...)

timshatz · 05-02-2008, 05:29 PM

"Ice Road Truckers" and "Ax Men", who gives a s---! That ain't history, it's reality TV. Put it on Discovery and give us Dogfights! Preferable something from the BOB or Russian front (just to mix it up a bit).

Njaco · 05-02-2008, 10:36 PM

or pure dogfighting from North Africa. Hey how about the defense of Malta by a few obsolete bi-planes! This series could go on and on. And I hope it does.

Soundbreaker Welch? · 05-03-2008, 06:02 PM

They could a lot of good stuff on the Russian Front.

Erich Hartmann, P-39's, Sturmoviks, Stalingrad, ect.

05-01-2008, 03:00 PM	#153
Soundbreaker Welch? Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 1,893	I agree. The Poles didn't want the Russians there. They didn't want liberation. They didn't have a cruel dictator like Saddam Hussein controlling them, until Hitler showed up, and when Stalin took them over he wasn't a whole lot better. They were happy the Russians destroyed the control of Hitler over them, but they would have been much happier if the Russians had left them alone after WWII and didn't establish a Communist State in Poland. __________________ "His motor's conked out!" "What's the differance, they're all Nazis!" "Luke, shut up!" "Fear the hook!" "Oh.....I wanna fly." "You mean the kind that go under water and fly up the stairs?" "What you doing? Oh Nooooo!"

05-02-2008, 03:50 AM	#158
kool kitty89 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,412	This is the same guy that derailed the tank buster discussion in the same manner and same topic... But on topic I saw the PBS "Secrets of The Dead" Guadalcanal episode tonight. Very interesting.SECRETS OF THE DEAD . Dogfight Over Guadalcanal \| PBS http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...akai-5794.html (James "Pug" Southerland vs Saburo Sakai) Looks like some of the same type of animation they used in Dogfights. And they had Barrett Tillman, who also regularly apears on Dogfights. You can see him at 40 sec here YouTube - Dogfights: " Thunderbolt " 1/5 Last edited by kool kitty89; 05-02-2008 at 04:00 AM.

05-02-2008, 07:23 AM	#159
Screaming Eagle Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 3,552	I just watched that thunderbolt series on youtube recently. Very interesting. __________________ "Success is nothing more than taking advantage of an opportunity." - Hitman! - The Technical Guide for the Independent Contractor.

05-02-2008, 09:58 AM	#161
Wayne Little Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Adelaide Sth. Aust. Posts: 12,511	Just watched the 'Night Fighters' episode.... __________________

05-02-2008, 10:36 PM	#164
Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Jersey, United States Posts: 10,236	or pure dogfighting from North Africa. Hey how about the defense of Malta by a few obsolete bi-planes! This series could go on and on. And I hope it does. __________________ "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it's English, thank a soldier!" http://www.njcacoa.org/

05-01-2008, 08:35 PM	#156
Udet Banned Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,258	People, please do not disturb this post-communist cockatoo that just entered the forum. His postings are fun.

05-02-2008, 09:58 AM	#160
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,446	Anybody heard it there is going to be a season 3? Seems unlikely but...

05-02-2008, 03:24 PM	#162
kool kitty89 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,412	It's hard to tell if a new season was postponed by the writers' strike or it was canceled. (or both) The strike would explain the crappy programing (ice rod truckers among others), reality programs filling in w/out writers, at least I hope that's why. (otherwise their programming is really going to hell...)

05-02-2008, 05:29 PM	#163
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,446	"Ice Road Truckers" and "Ax Men", who gives a s---! That ain't history, it's reality TV. Put it on Discovery and give us Dogfights! Preferable something from the BOB or Russian front (just to mix it up a bit).

05-03-2008, 06:02 PM	#165
Soundbreaker Welch? Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 1,893	They could a lot of good stuff on the Russian Front. Erich Hartmann, P-39's, Sturmoviks, Stalingrad, ect. __________________ "His motor's conked out!" "What's the differance, they're all Nazis!" "Luke, shut up!" "Fear the hook!" "Oh.....I wanna fly." "You mean the kind that go under water and fly up the stairs?" "What you doing? Oh Nooooo!"

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