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Dog fights on the History channel

Aviation Discuss Dog fights on the History channel in the World War II - Aviation forums; Ah, no worries Erich, I havent seen any of the Jerry Crandall interview stuff yet, so looking forward to it.....


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Old 03-29-2008, 02:21 AM   #106
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Ah, no worries Erich, I havent seen any of the Jerry Crandall interview stuff yet, so looking forward to it..
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Old 03-29-2008, 03:32 AM   #107
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Ep.5 Gun kills of Vietnam on now!!
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Old 03-30-2008, 07:16 AM   #108
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saw gun kills of vietnam last night, great episode
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Old 04-04-2008, 07:09 PM   #109
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Just watched 'Death of the Luftwaffe', taped it from Thursday night.

Eric, FYI...Jerry speaks for about 20 - 30 seconds about 10 minutes into the episode and thats it!
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Old 04-04-2008, 08:25 PM   #110
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There are a couple LW vets that speak though, not just the one.
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Old 04-05-2008, 06:13 AM   #111
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kool kitty, I was referring to Jerry Crandall, rather than the LW vets...
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Old 04-07-2008, 11:58 AM   #112
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I just saw the episode with bombers dogfighting last night...

I can only say that I would like to offer my thanks, gratitude and a big salute to all you military aviators and support people out there. Whatever you men and women have been paid, it ain't near enough!
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Old 04-07-2008, 12:02 PM   #113
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yeappreatty good show i likethe one abot the flying tigers and nigth fithing
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:33 PM   #114
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I particularly enjoyed watching the replay of Thorsness/Johnson fight to protect the Sandy attempts to locate Thorsness' wingman.

The 355th got two of the 12 Medal of Honor awards for USAF in VietNam but Thorsness and Deflethsen probably deserved the Medal as much for what they endured in the Hilton. They demonstrated why the 355th was top Mig killers in VN until 1972.. wasn't about agility - all about 'opportunity' and trying to survive.

The 355th dropped 202,000 Tons of iron on North Vietnam.. B-17's dropped 600,000 tons in all of their careers in all theatres..

Steve Daisley will get around to getting me the 105's for both of those missions but maybe not before the reunion this month - I will stick them in the Book Photos' forum when I get them
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:41 PM   #115
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I laughed with the Mossie with the RCAF roundel somebody messed up
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Old 04-08-2008, 01:18 AM   #116
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Cool show!! Nicely done!
But, felt a little bit bored after several episodes. Looks like a one-sided story or too much of propaganda: Americans fighting alone and always win... Is that accurate? Is that how it was?
I heard that over 75% of its aircrafts Luftwaffe lost on Eastern Front. Just curious if we ever see that part.
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Old 04-08-2008, 10:51 AM   #117
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Cool show!! Nicely done!
But, felt a little bit bored after several episodes. Looks like a one-sided story or too much of propaganda: Americans fighting alone and always win... Is that accurate? Is that how it was?
I heard that over 75% of its aircrafts Luftwaffe lost on Eastern Front. Just curious if we ever see that part.
Highly doubtful that even 25% of Luftwaffe losses were on Eastern front. From early the mid 1943 the Luftwaffe started shifting Fighter units from Ost and LuftFlotte 2 to re-organize into Channel Front and Germany.

Just daylight fighter adjustments - by May 1943

In the east, JG 54 remained stable, keeping Stab., I.and II., losing III. and 10. and 11. Staffel.. JG3 lost Stab. and I. ... JG 52 lost I. ... - all lost to east or south and redeployed to West.

By May 1944 the`following units were pulled back from East and south to Austria and Germany

LuftFlotte Reich added

III./JG1, III.and IV./JG3, I. and II./G5, Stab. and III. and 10. Staffel/G11, II. and III. and IV./JG27, II./JG53, III./JG54, JG300, JG301, JG 302, JG 400

LuftFlotte 3 added

I./JG26,

LuftFlotte's 1, 4 and 6. with most coverage to USSR

10./jg54, lost II.&III./JG3, lost 15.Staffel JG/52, lost I.JG26, lost IV. and 15. Staffel/JG51

The combined day fighter strength in May 1942 for all units opposed to VVS were LF1 (71), LF4 (132), LF5 (97) and Kdo Ost(179)

one year later, after transfers LF1 (77), LF4 (105), LF5 (115), LF6 (10

In May 1944 the East had, after transfers again had LF1 (8, LF4 (139), LF5 (67).

The drop in Serviceable day fighters in the East was 405 to 290 and parts of LF4 were deployed in Austria to resiste both 8th and 15th attacks to SE Germany and Czechoslovakia, and parts of JG5 were deployed to resist 8th AF attcks in Norway, Denmark and northern bomber routes, so the actual strength against the VVS was less than 290 day fighters.

The gain for LF3 and LF Reich in that same period was

LF3 (215) and LF Reich (19 in May 1943 to May 1944 was LF3 (115) and LFR (439) = and increase from 413 to 554 Day fighters.

This comparison between East and West is strictly to compare the shift in strength from Russia to try to stop the Allied strikes from England..

Elements of JG4, JG5, 53, 77 and KdoSud Ost were arrayed to resist RAF and USAAF strikes in Balkans and Southern Germany -

So of the serviceable day fighter strength of 1,063 s/e fighters a mximum of 28% was devoted to trying to stop VVS day attacks, the rest devoted to Allied day attacks.

The largest percentage of dedicated forces was t/e fighters both night and day - about 90% dedicated to fighting in the West.

All this from Dr Price's Luftwaffe Data book.

So, conclusions? Nowhere near 25% of LW losses occurred on Ost front and that would be generous.
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Old 04-08-2008, 01:44 PM   #118
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I laughed with the Mossie with the RCAF roundel somebody messed up
What episode was that in?
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Old 04-08-2008, 01:50 PM   #119
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Supersonic was the episode , at the beginning .
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Old 04-08-2008, 03:58 PM   #120
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Good info Bill... Have to agree with u.... Alot, and I mean ALOT of successful pilots on the Ost Front, when being re-assigned to the West, got smoked within the first mission or 2....

The West was the grinder for the Luftwaffe Sausage that the 8th devoured...
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