Dog fights on the History channel

Soren · 05-12-2008, 01:40 PM

Exactly Kruska.

rochie · 05-12-2008, 04:08 PM

kruska thats what i was thinking when i watched the P-51 episode.
maybe the pilot remembered the details in a different order of time from the real events and was realy hit after he shot down the 109's.
it must have been pretty stressfull and was 60 years ago

pbfoot · 05-12-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruska

Hello kool kitty89,

And I don’t think that a “good” pilot would take the risk of getting himself entangled or pursue a dogfight with a damaged a/c.

Regards
Kruska

Depends on the situation and how his dials are reading and how the birds flying, your there to protect the mission

kool kitty89 · 05-12-2008, 04:25 PM

And the aggression of the pilot. Granted a "smart" pilot would probably get out, but a skilled "hothead" may not. (of course circumstances affect it too)

Haztoys · 05-12-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruska

Hello kool kitty89,

And I don’t think that a “good” pilot would take the risk of getting himself entangled or pursue a dogfight with a damaged a/c.

Regards
Kruska

Wow this is a shity statement ...He was a good pilot ...He got one Me-262 he ether downed it or got it smoking ...Ether way the one Me-262 broke off from the bombers and punted...Then he went off after the other Me-262...He was flying his plane not you and I... If it was hit by a 22 round or a 88 shell ...It did not do dick to his aircraft ...I'm sure the man could see were the 30mm hit on the wing ..You can see the wing on a P-51 from the pilots seat...It did not hurt his aircraft ...So he went back after the Me-262...Hats off to him ..It takes nuts to go after TWO Me-262's in a P-51 ...He did what he was trained to do and keep fighting for the bomber...A damaged plane ...Is well "damaged".. Smoke, leaks, something does not work right ...Time to punt and go home .. But this guy did not feel his plane was damaged... Just because is a German 30mm shell does not mean the plane is destroyed

He was having a lucky day on the 30mm round and the German boys were having a unlucky day ....And yes the 30mm "should" of downed the P-51..And if it had hit bone and explosive round would of gone off it could of taken the wing off the aircraft ...Thats why the Germans used them... But the round did not go off.. He looked over at the damage on his wing ..No leak no smoke all the stuff he could see still working ...And back in to the fight...

I fail to see how he was not a good pilot...???

I do not have a TV and did not see the whole Dogfight show on this.. And YouTube cut the show short... But I'm "thinking" he made it back to base..??

So was has plane damaged or...????????

We all know some planes got the crap shot out of them and made it home .. And one good or lucky round the plane went down...

Soren · 05-12-2008, 06:21 PM

Hey easy there Haztoys! As I understand it Kruska merely pointed out that a good pilot wouldn't have continued to pick a fight if his aircraft had been damaged, implying Candelaria's a/c hadn't been damaged. He NEVER said that Candelaria continued to fight with a damaged a/c.

rochie · 05-12-2008, 06:23 PM

saw the desert storm episode was ok but not as interesting as some of the others, i think it was because of kills made at distances of miles with missiles.
still gotta be a good pilot though but not as up close and personal as the pre aam days

Haztoys · 05-12-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soren

Hey easy there Haztoys! As I understand it Kruska merely pointed out that a good pilot wouldn't have continued to pick a fight if his aircraft had been damaged, implying Candelaria's a/c hadn't been damaged. He NEVER said that Candelaria continued to fight with a damaged a/c.

Its all good not up set at all...Sorry if I seem to come off as I was... I'm really enjoying having Kruska around here..Him being German its good to have his point of view...

I would think a hole or three in your plane was not real damage ...All in a days work...I did read his post wrong as in Candelaria "did" have damage.. Sorry on that...

With all the different people and countries on this forum ...I'm surprised we do not get thing crossed up more then you do ... Sorry

Haztoys · 05-12-2008, 07:15 PM

So is Dogfights going to have some new stuff out soon ?..I've just ordered some of the back shows...It would be nice to have them do some other points of view..The older I get the more the pro American stand on shows like this get old...We know the American point of view ... Its the other countrys point of view no one knows...And as time goes by we loose the men and there storys...

Great shows ...

kool kitty89 · 05-12-2008, 07:25 PM

Sorry, (my post could cave come off the wrong way also) I didn't mean to imply that Candelaria was a "hothead" either.

But then again there are situations like this: YouTube - Dogfights - Jet vs Jet (1 of 5)

Kruska · 05-17-2008, 12:13 PM

Hello Haztoys, Soren and kool kitty89,

Sorry I couldn’t get connected to the site for the last 5-6 days, (page was suddenly unknown).
Regarding Candelaria; It was just “my” opinion that a good pilot would not endanger himself knowingly, so maybe the term good caused some “excitement” in regards to everyone’s personal interpretation.

I am sure that most pilots with kills (on all sides) were indeed hotheads and kind of reckless even towards themselves – but taking unnecessary/uncalculated risks (such as taking a damaged a/c into a fight) shows more of “blunt” skill to me then what I would expect of a seasoned and experienced pilot.

Regards
Kruska

kool kitty89 · 05-17-2008, 02:00 PM

I think the whole site's been down for the last 4-5 days.

Kruska · 05-17-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

I think the whole site's been down for the last 4-5 days.

Hello kool kitty89,

yes looking at the last posts, I think the server was down for a couple of days.

Regards
Kruska

davparlr · 05-17-2008, 06:44 PM

Wow! I haven't read this too much and I see there is much to absorb. It does seem to be much to do about nothing.

The 30 mm probably did not explode (dud?). I cannot concieve of a P-51 wing surviving a 30 mm blast and certainly not continuing to fight. The damage must have been minor.

The comment about not being a good pilot is highly inappropriate by someone who was not in that cockpit. If I remember correctly, he was defending a bomber strike. A wounded cat will still defend her kittens. There are many stories of soldiers continuing to fight with partial malfunctioning equipment to protect others. And he could have just been an egotistical fighter pilot who could beat anything. Not a rarity and not cause to be called "not good".

Kruska · 05-17-2008, 07:32 PM

Hello davparlr,

come on this has nothing to do with running away. If it makes sense to someone to “sacrifice” himself, well then that is a personal decision, which might not be based on a rational decision.

What good would it do to engage in a fight, with maybe your wings dropping off before you can even fire a shot? Killing yourself for nothing, instead of getting back to base and take on the enemy some other time with an intact aircraft.

Off course every pilot will estimate and judge the damage on his a/c differently and this is where the answer lies, a good pilot will know if he continues or not, a “hero” or hothead will just go for it and get himself probably killed for nothing (besides a medal and his righteous feeling).

Regards
Kruska