The ETO's finest single engined ground attack aircraft

[Gemhorse]

Well I was wondering about that, Erich....I have a great fondness for the Fw-190A's....
I'm presently reading this article on the Russian Yaks, [Air International Nov. 1975], and they claim the Yak-3 first saw combat on the tail-end of Operation Zitadelle, the pilots claiming a clear superiority over both the Bf-109G and Fw-190A at altitudes below 19,685 ft [6,000m]....They go on to say'' that weighing 5,864 lb, the Yak-3 possessed a specific wing loading of 36.66lb/sq ft and a power loading of 4.83 lb/hp. At a height of 3,280 ft, it could complete a full 360 degree combat turn in 18.5 secs while gaining 3,940 ft in altitude; it's initial climb rate was 3,800 ft/min and could attain an altitude of 16,405 ft in 4.1 mins; it was exceptionally light on the ailerons and capable of a remarkable roll rate; light stick pressure produced fast and accurate snap rolls and all manoeuvres were performed precisely and smoothly...etc...etc....an ideal fighter for close-in, high-g manoeuvring combat and it's agility was second to none''........
Now all I've read previously indicates the Fw-190A's were THE rate-of-roll fighter with great performance to way above the Yaks low ceiling.....They did go on to say the Yaks were a handful taking-off and landing, with inexperienced pilots commonly ground-looping them.
All I can think of was they probably had a helluva lot more Yaks than Fw's, and it was towards the end of a big campaign....I'm not that up-to-speed on Russian aircraft and have been browsing to learn more, so I was quite surprised to read this....I would happily put the Fw-190 in with the Thunderbolt, Typhoon/Tempest/ category, it's certainly earned it......

[Concorde247]

The typhoon & tempest were the best. especially after the napier Sabre engines became more reliable I wouldnt have liked to be on the receiving
end of an eight six inch salvo from a tiffy!!

[mosquitoman]

The Tempest's the best, it could give you 4x20mm and 8x 6inch rockets together in a devastating blast.

[Brunner]

Originally Posted by Erich

by the way the Fw's never met their match to the Yaks, the Fw's still being superior with superior flying skills by the German pilots

It wasn't that simple. majority of the yaks delivered to the combat units, but with exception of very late yaks3 were of, how to say it in the mildest way, very medium quality. Another problem is that it was hardly possible to find two same Yaks. One was faster, another turned left better, another was better in diving. But as I said this doesn't refer to Yaks 3 which were quite good fighters.
Pilot training is another question...

[trackend]

Im a lover of the Tiffy myself but thats more because I have spoken to some fellas who as Sqauddies saw them in action (one described Tigers being decapitated even in hull down sand bagged positions) than to do with its technical specs so I will listen to you guys with interest.

[KraziKanuK]

Originally Posted by trackend

Im a lover of the Tiffy myself but thats more because I have spoken to some fellas who as Sqauddies saw them in action (one described Tigers being decapitated even in hull down sand bagged positions) than to do with its technical specs so I will listen to you guys with interest.

Do you have these books on the Typhoon/Tempest?

THE HAWKER TYPHOON & TEMPEST
by Francis K. Mason
ISBN 0-94667-19-3

THE TYPHOON & TEMPEST STORY
by Thomas & Shores
ISBN 0-85368-878-8

[the lancaster kicks ass]

it's definately between the tiffy and P-47 but i'm sayin tiffy.....

[Concorde247]

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

Do you have these books on the Typhoon/Tempest?

THE HAWKER TYPHOON & TEMPEST
by Francis K. Mason
ISBN 0-94667-19-3

THE TYPHOON & TEMPEST STORY
by Thomas & Shores
ISBN 0-85368-878-8

I've got both the Dvd's TYPHOON at WAR and TEMPEST at WAR - They're really worth getting! - Check out

http://www.ddvideo.co.uk/

[trackend]

Thanks KK and concorde I shall make inquires I ve got some footage
of various ground attack aircraft gun cams and the Tiffy stll looks impressive to me. I also have a book by Francis Crosby of the Imperial War Museum Duxford but its a general fighter aircraft book and only gives an outline to the aircrafts development and performance ie climb rate, ceiling ect

[DAVIDICUS]

Trackend,

Did you say that you had a book by Francis Gabreski that, "... gives an outline to the aircrafts development and performance ie climb rate, ceiling ect""

I am trying to find out what the climb rate was for the P-47D with paddle blade prop.

Does that book of yours address this?

[Gemhorse]

Thanks Brunner for the enlightenment on Yaks....I've never really been a fan on things Russian and what you say supports other things I've read about them...I have a respect for German engineering, and the precision they have with the things they make & do, and Erich is correct in the quality of airmanship of the Luftwaffe, right to the end.....

I feel that in 'ground-attack' there is a difference between strafing and bombing/rocketing, and with 8 x .5's, the P-47 certainly gets the 'strafing' prize, and while I don't know the full extent of the P-47's service in the ETO other than escort duties, I do know a deal about the Typhoon & Tempest's service...[ those books mentioned being THE one's to read on them...]

Therefore, I believe the 'Typhoon' really should be the holder of the
'Best Ground-attack in the ETO'', most of what I've learned indicates this, particuarly an ancestor having flown them, and the Tempest's role was more one of maintaining the Air Superiority that the Allies had achieved by then....their work sorting-out V1's was well known, and their scraps with the Luftwaffe also...
There is another book called '' The Wild Winds'' by Paul Sortehaug, which is RAF 486 [NZ] Sqn.'s story, who were also in the same 2nd TAF Wing as my ancestor's Sqn., and their story is a great read....

''Typhoon'' for me, guys..... [''P-47 - as ''Best Strafer''.........]

[Erich]

I think the Tiffy and Jug would be best described as fighter-bomber.

Ju 87D variant bitte

[Brunner]

Originally Posted by Erich

I think the Tiffy and Jug would be best described as fighter-bomber.

Ju 87D variant bitte

It's hard to describe P47 without any ambiguity. It was excellent as a fighter-bomber, its firepower and endurance beyond doubt, but originally it was designed to perform escort duties on high altitude.
Jug pilots knew that and dived to strafe only if sure that there are no 190's in their sector...

Erich, I would say Ju87 G, Kanonenvogel

Gemhorse, I am not Yak enthusiast at all too.
I am under great impression of German precision and technology (even if such point of view is not very popular in my country).

[the lancaster kicks ass]

well if you want a dedicated ground attack platform this changes things.......

[Concorde247]

The Tiffy still has it by a short nose