Even the BBC can go wrong. Terribly wrong - Page 5 - Aircraft of World War II

the lancaster kicks ass · 10-30-2005, 04:55 AM

crap i can't believe i put nations, i meant continents, honest

pps:

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 10-30-2005, 06:07 AM

Schwartzpanzer I really can not agree with you. Germany was not defending itself at all. What was it defending itself. I do believe that without the Versaille Treaty maybe just maybe WW2 may not have happened but as was stated Hitler wanted war and he started it. He was the aggressor not the defender.

HealzDevo · 11-06-2005, 04:23 AM

But without the Versaille Treaty maybe conditions would never have got to the stage that allowed him to rise to power. Versailles was a Treaty that was enforced by the Allies after WWI on a nation they had brought to their knees. The US Leader Woodrow Wilson actually prophased that from Versaille another World War would occur. Sadly he was right. Versailles forced large sums of money from Germany to the Allies of Britain and France. While the US was able to keep Germany afloat all was well, but when things went sour in the US the shocks went through everyone else as well. Therefore we had a financial meltdown and two other governments trying to stablise things without success until finally Hitler does stablise the economy and embarks on building up the military.

plan_D · 11-06-2005, 06:04 AM

Hitler didn't actually stabilise the economy. Germany's economy was already on the rise when Hitler rose to power, the National Socialists just took all the credit. However, the rate of increase did go up but it was a boom that would burn out if war wasn't started.

The fact of the matter is, Germany started the war.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-06-2005, 06:45 AM

Preparing for war was the boom.

Gnomey · 11-06-2005, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Preparing for war was the boom.

Exactly.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-06-2005, 12:11 PM

And it would have been a short lived boom, had he not started WW2.

Gnomey · 11-06-2005, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

And it would have been a short lived boom, had he not started WW2.

Very true Alder, he removed unemployment by putting the unemployed to work in the armament factories or into the armed forces. He could not have sustained the economy without war, he created the economy with one aim, to rebuilt the strength of Germany again and then to use it to gain Lebensraum (living space) in the East. He knew this policy would end with war with the USSR at least (as did Stalin) and as a result without the war the German economy would not of survived and would have suffered another crash similar to that that was seen after the Wall Street Crash. (I wrote my dissertation on this in school, if anyone would like to read it, send me an email or PM.)

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-06-2005, 01:18 PM

Would love to, if you could pm it to me.

Gnomey · 11-06-2005, 01:34 PM

Check your PM's Alder.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-06-2005, 01:57 PM

Thanks.

HealzDevo · 11-07-2005, 04:49 PM

I think you may be missing my point. Versailles was a treaty that was very harshly sucking money out of the German economy as fast as the Americans were putting it in. It was a situation which couldn't last. I am saying that people were looking for a leader. Hitler seemed to be a way out of their troubles. It is debatable just how clear his true intentions were to the German populace of the time. I am saying that maybe Versailles was at least a factor in the Wall Street Crash. At any rate there would have been hostility towards the Allies over how valueless the German Currency was at that stage. It was actually cheaper to use the German Paper Notes as Wallpaper than buy proper wallpaper!!!! A wheelbarrow full of money necessary to buy a loaf of bread!!!! I can't remember reading about things actually getting quite that bad within the US itself or elsewhere. Therefore we can assume that an already weakened economy was suffering greater stress during this period and cracked under the strain. If conditions were a bit more like the US in the Great Depression I don't think the German situation would have been quite so bad.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-07-2005, 05:14 PM

I still disagree for the main reason that Germany was still demoralized. Forget about the economy. The Germany people are a proud people and they were demoralized. Hitler gave them hope and reason and promised them to be a great nation again.

plan_D · 11-09-2005, 07:07 AM

But ...the Germans still started the war. And anyone with a bit a sense knows why, and most of those same people with sense (key words: with sense) don't hold anything against the Germans that just wanted to be free from the Versailles Diktat.

Most of the German people didn't want an Ural to Atlantic Empire, but Hitler did. They didn't all read his book, why should they? Does everyone who votes here read books written by the person they're voting for? And if they didn't read his book, they didn't know what he truely wanted. Even some Jews voted for Hitler ...obviously they didn't read Mein Kampf ...

We all know why, where, when and how Hitler came to power and why, where, when and how Germany was 'pushed into war' by the Versailles Diktat ...

...but...the Germans still started the war. Only those with no sense think otherwise.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-10-2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

But ...the Germans still started the war. And anyone with a bit a sense knows why, and most of those same people with sense (key words: with sense) don't hold anything against the Germans that just wanted to be free from the Versailles Diktat.

Most of the German people didn't want an Ural to Atlantic Empire, but Hitler did. They didn't all read his book, why should they? Does everyone who votes here read books written by the person they're voting for? And if they didn't read his book, they didn't know what he truely wanted. Even some Jews voted for Hitler ...obviously they didn't read Mein Kampf ...

We all know why, where, when and how Hitler came to power and why, where, when and how Germany was 'pushed into war' by the Versailles Diktat ...

...but...the Germans still started the war. Only those with no sense think otherwise.

And you are exactly right and I think that is pretty much what I have been saying the whole time.

10-30-2005, 04:55 AM	#61
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	crap i can't believe i put nations, i meant continents, honest pps: __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

10-30-2005, 06:07 AM	#62
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,076	Schwartzpanzer I really can not agree with you. Germany was not defending itself at all. What was it defending itself. I do believe that without the Versaille Treaty maybe just maybe WW2 may not have happened but as was stated Hitler wanted war and he started it. He was the aggressor not the defender. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

11-06-2005, 04:23 AM	#63
HealzDevo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Queensland Posts: 1,251	But without the Versaille Treaty maybe conditions would never have got to the stage that allowed him to rise to power. Versailles was a Treaty that was enforced by the Allies after WWI on a nation they had brought to their knees. The US Leader Woodrow Wilson actually prophased that from Versaille another World War would occur. Sadly he was right. Versailles forced large sums of money from Germany to the Allies of Britain and France. While the US was able to keep Germany afloat all was well, but when things went sour in the US the shocks went through everyone else as well. Therefore we had a financial meltdown and two other governments trying to stablise things without success until finally Hitler does stablise the economy and embarks on building up the military. __________________ http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/alb...500&ppuser=671 Link To My Picture Gallery

11-06-2005, 06:04 AM	#64
plan_D Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,978	Hitler didn't actually stabilise the economy. Germany's economy was already on the rise when Hitler rose to power, the National Socialists just took all the credit. However, the rate of increase did go up but it was a boom that would burn out if war wasn't started. The fact of the matter is, Germany started the war. __________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club.

11-06-2005, 06:45 AM	#65
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,076	Preparing for war was the boom. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

11-06-2005, 12:11 PM	#67
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,076	And it would have been a short lived boom, had he not started WW2. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

11-06-2005, 01:18 PM	#69
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,076	Would love to, if you could pm it to me. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

11-06-2005, 01:34 PM	#70
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 16,520	Check your PM's Alder. __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

11-06-2005, 01:57 PM	#71
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,076	Thanks. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

11-07-2005, 04:49 PM	#72
HealzDevo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Queensland Posts: 1,251	I think you may be missing my point. Versailles was a treaty that was very harshly sucking money out of the German economy as fast as the Americans were putting it in. It was a situation which couldn't last. I am saying that people were looking for a leader. Hitler seemed to be a way out of their troubles. It is debatable just how clear his true intentions were to the German populace of the time. I am saying that maybe Versailles was at least a factor in the Wall Street Crash. At any rate there would have been hostility towards the Allies over how valueless the German Currency was at that stage. It was actually cheaper to use the German Paper Notes as Wallpaper than buy proper wallpaper!!!! A wheelbarrow full of money necessary to buy a loaf of bread!!!! I can't remember reading about things actually getting quite that bad within the US itself or elsewhere. Therefore we can assume that an already weakened economy was suffering greater stress during this period and cracked under the strain. If conditions were a bit more like the US in the Great Depression I don't think the German situation would have been quite so bad. __________________ http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/alb...500&ppuser=671 Link To My Picture Gallery

11-07-2005, 05:14 PM	#73
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,076	I still disagree for the main reason that Germany was still demoralized. Forget about the economy. The Germany people are a proud people and they were demoralized. Hitler gave them hope and reason and promised them to be a great nation again. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

11-09-2005, 07:07 AM	#74
plan_D Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,978	But ...the Germans still started the war. And anyone with a bit a sense knows why, and most of those same people with sense (key words: with sense) don't hold anything against the Germans that just wanted to be free from the Versailles Diktat. Most of the German people didn't want an Ural to Atlantic Empire, but Hitler did. They didn't all read his book, why should they? Does everyone who votes here read books written by the person they're voting for? And if they didn't read his book, they didn't know what he truely wanted. Even some Jews voted for Hitler ...obviously they didn't read Mein Kampf ... We all know why, where, when and how Hitler came to power and why, where, when and how Germany was 'pushed into war' by the Versailles Diktat ... ...but...the Germans still started the war. Only those with no sense think otherwise. __________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club.

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