F4U Corsair vs P-51 Mustang - Aircraft of World War II

Catch22 · 07-23-2008, 09:36 PM

I did a quick search and couldn't find an existing thread, so...

Which is the better aircraft? I will not be posting much data as I 1) am not that knowledgable technically, so this should be good and 2) I'm here to learn, and I don't have access to all the resources some of you guys have.

Personally, I'm partial to the F4U, but this thread is NOT here to choose favourites, but rather to determine which the better plane was and why. Have at 'er!

comiso90 · 07-23-2008, 10:11 PM

Ask Honduras and El Salvador. They fought each other and as far as I know the P-51 always came out on top but pilot training and maintenance were huge factors

ponsford · 07-23-2008, 10:15 PM

Examine the data and draw your own conclusions.

F4U Performance Trials

P-51 Mustang Performance and Encounter Reports of P-51 Mustang Pilots

Evaluation and Comparison Trials of P-51B and F4U-1 Airplanes (It should be noted that the 65” Hg MAP used on one of the F4U’s tested was not standard.)

kool kitty89 · 07-23-2008, 10:36 PM

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...sair-3641.html (P-51 Mustang or F4U Corsair)

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...say-12111.html (F4U vs. P-51 essay)

Catch22 · 07-23-2008, 10:58 PM

Wow, the search is brutal on this site I guess. Sorry guys!

kool kitty89 · 07-23-2008, 11:16 PM

Well the other thread is kind of old. (last post in '06, and the essay one is a bit of a different topic)

Anyway, try using the google search feature, it's usually more helpful for these kind of searches.
My search: P-51 F4U - Google Search

Catch22 · 07-24-2008, 12:06 AM

Oh yes, that is much better. Thanks again!

magnocain · 07-24-2008, 02:13 AM

Corsair wins.

comiso90 · 07-24-2008, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnocain

Corsair wins.

unless you are escorting heavies at high altitude

Soundbreaker Welch? · 07-24-2008, 03:53 AM

Kinda off topic, but does a game like Il Sturmovik really portray the Mustangs manuverability accurately?

Or does it hype it up?

I do like all the stall characteristics in Sturmovik, even though it can be annoying when your plane crashes from too tight a turn. But still, it helps make the planes feel more realistic.

and again, I know it's just a game.

kool kitty89 · 07-24-2008, 04:04 AM

Which the Corsair was capable of, albeit not quite as good as the P-51. But even in comparison to the lighter P-51B the F4U-1 was comperable in speed and superior in climb up to 24,000 ft with both a/c in comparable loadouts. (configured for similar range)
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...1-navycomp.pdf

The F4U-1 also had superior high-alt performance to contemporary Fw-190's and 109's (except for high alt 109's with GM-1 or DB-603 supercharger).

Though I haven't seen a cost comparison for the F4U, I'd assume it would be more expensive than the P-51 (though probably a bit cheaper than the P-47) and it would use ~50% more fuel than the P-51.
But the F4U was much better in other roles, Fighter-Bomber and Dive Bomber (except A-36), strafing: carried much more ammo 6x 400 rpg, compared to 4x 400 or 2x 400 + 4x 265 for the P-51D. (much less for the B/C)

kool kitty89 · 07-24-2008, 04:22 AM

The turning characteristics in Il-2 (4.07/4.08 -1946-) seem pretty well matched to reality. And the stalls are great, particularly modeling the particular characteristic of different a/c. (including slats, featured on quite a few a/c)

THe only general (significant) problems I've encountered in performance is that the jets don't seem to accelerate and retain speed properly at altitude.

The biggest flaw I've found is thatthe damage modeling, while possibly the best of any CFS, doesn't model cooling systems/radiators. (odd since they do model oil coolers and oil tanks)

drgondog · 07-24-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catch22

I did a quick search and couldn't find an existing thread, so...

Which is the better aircraft? I will not be posting much data as I 1) am not that knowledgable technically, so this should be good and 2) I'm here to learn, and I don't have access to all the resources some of you guys have.

Personally, I'm partial to the F4U, but this thread is NOT here to choose favourites, but rather to determine which the better plane was and why. Have at 'er!

In my opinion this discussion is about which models you are comparing and which pilots are flying them and who spots the other first.

Overall Mission capability - dogfighter, close air support, carrier ops and I would give the edge to Corsair

Air superiority, long range escort, maybe even high altitude interceptor and I would give the edge to the P-51 and particularly the P-51H over any variant of the F4U.

The airplane that is most ignored in these discussions is the P51B-15 with Malcom Hood and the 1650-7 engine on 44-1 fuel. Only the P-51H is superior Mustang variant.

My father got 3-1-1 in the air in his first two weeks in this bird, then converted to a P-51D and got 4-1-1 for the next 10 months. He always had a great affection for acceleration, climb and turn performance in that B-15 over all variants of the P-51D

Thorlifter · 07-24-2008, 11:57 AM

Drgondog,

What is 3-1-1 and 4-1-1?

Is it 3 kills, 1 damaged, 1 probable?

drgondog · 07-24-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorlifter

Drgondog,

What is 3-1-1 and 4-1-1?

Is it 3 kills, 1 damaged, 1 probable?

Yes but destroyed-probable-damaged in that order

07-23-2008, 09:36 PM	#1
Catch22 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,293	F4U Corsair vs P-51 Mustang I did a quick search and couldn't find an existing thread, so... Which is the better aircraft? I will not be posting much data as I 1) am not that knowledgable technically, so this should be good and 2) I'm here to learn, and I don't have access to all the resources some of you guys have. Personally, I'm partial to the F4U, but this thread is NOT here to choose favourites, but rather to determine which the better plane was and why. Have at 'er! __________________

07-23-2008, 10:11 PM	#2
comiso90 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: FL Posts: 3,294	Ask Honduras and El Salvador. They fought each other and as far as I know the P-51 always came out on top but pilot training and maintenance were huge factors __________________ http://www.BOOKSonWAR.com/ .

07-23-2008, 10:58 PM	#5
Catch22 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,293	Wow, the search is brutal on this site I guess. Sorry guys! __________________

07-24-2008, 12:06 AM	#7
Catch22 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,293	Oh yes, that is much better. Thanks again! __________________

07-24-2008, 02:13 AM	#8
magnocain Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 394	Corsair wins. __________________ Four hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets. --Napoleon Bonaparte--

07-23-2008, 10:15 PM	#3
ponsford Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 53	Examine the data and draw your own conclusions. F4U Performance Trials P-51 Mustang Performance and Encounter Reports of P-51 Mustang Pilots Evaluation and Comparison Trials of P-51B and F4U-1 Airplanes (It should be noted that the 65” Hg MAP used on one of the F4U’s tested was not standard.)

07-23-2008, 10:36 PM	#4
kool kitty89 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,412	http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...sair-3641.html (P-51 Mustang or F4U Corsair) http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...say-12111.html (F4U vs. P-51 essay)

07-23-2008, 11:16 PM	#6
kool kitty89 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,412	Well the other thread is kind of old. (last post in '06, and the essay one is a bit of a different topic) Anyway, try using the google search feature, it's usually more helpful for these kind of searches. My search: P-51 F4U - Google Search

07-24-2008, 03:53 AM	#10
Soundbreaker Welch? Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 1,893	Kinda off topic, but does a game like Il Sturmovik really portray the Mustangs manuverability accurately? Or does it hype it up? I do like all the stall characteristics in Sturmovik, even though it can be annoying when your plane crashes from too tight a turn. But still, it helps make the planes feel more realistic. and again, I know it's just a game. __________________ "His motor's conked out!" "What's the differance, they're all Nazis!" "Luke, shut up!" "Fear the hook!" "Oh.....I wanna fly." "You mean the kind that go under water and fly up the stairs?" "What you doing? Oh Nooooo!" Last edited by Soundbreaker Welch?; 07-24-2008 at 03:56 AM.

07-24-2008, 04:04 AM	#11
kool kitty89 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,412	Which the Corsair was capable of, albeit not quite as good as the P-51. But even in comparison to the lighter P-51B the F4U-1 was comperable in speed and superior in climb up to 24,000 ft with both a/c in comparable loadouts. (configured for similar range) http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...1-navycomp.pdf The F4U-1 also had superior high-alt performance to contemporary Fw-190's and 109's (except for high alt 109's with GM-1 or DB-603 supercharger). Though I haven't seen a cost comparison for the F4U, I'd assume it would be more expensive than the P-51 (though probably a bit cheaper than the P-47) and it would use ~50% more fuel than the P-51. But the F4U was much better in other roles, Fighter-Bomber and Dive Bomber (except A-36), strafing: carried much more ammo 6x 400 rpg, compared to 4x 400 or 2x 400 + 4x 265 for the P-51D. (much less for the B/C) Last edited by kool kitty89; 07-24-2008 at 04:16 AM.

07-24-2008, 04:22 AM	#12
kool kitty89 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,412	The turning characteristics in Il-2 (4.07/4.08 -1946-) seem pretty well matched to reality. And the stalls are great, particularly modeling the particular characteristic of different a/c. (including slats, featured on quite a few a/c) THe only general (significant) problems I've encountered in performance is that the jets don't seem to accelerate and retain speed properly at altitude. The biggest flaw I've found is thatthe damage modeling, while possibly the best of any CFS, doesn't model cooling systems/radiators. (odd since they do model oil coolers and oil tanks) Last edited by kool kitty89; 07-24-2008 at 04:25 AM.

07-24-2008, 11:57 AM	#14
Thorlifter Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 4,346	Drgondog, What is 3-1-1 and 4-1-1? Is it 3 kills, 1 damaged, 1 probable? __________________

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