Which fighters were "thick skinned?"

[FLYBOYJ]

I could tell you on the Corsair you're looking at up to .125. The Zero looked about .032 - .040. The Mustang about .075.

If rebuilt, I could tell you that the Zero would have to use close to the original thickness of sheet metal. After the restoration the FAA has to do their thing and before an airworthiness certificate is issued. The restorer will have to prove to an FAA inspector that what was used on the retoration was close if not the same material on the original structure.

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

I could tell you on the Corsair you're looking at up to .125.
The Zero looked about .032 - .040. The Mustang about .075.

If rebuilt, I could tell you that the Zero would have to use close to the
original thickness of sheet metal. After the restoration the FAA has to do
their thing and before an airworthiness certificate is issued. The restorer
will have to prove to an FAA inspector that what was used on the
restoration was close if not the same material on the original structure.

Well, that is not always true. On the Corsair for instance, virtually all
flying planes have the wing fabric replaced with aluminum sheeting, and
usually tail surface fabric too for that matter. The historic fabric is
impossible to get - it was very expenensive and was soaked in a
fireproofing liquid that it turned out was a significant health hazard for the
crews working with it. Aluminum is much cheaper and much easier to
maintain. The main purpose of the fabric covering was to reduce
vulnerablity to enemy fire - civilian Corsairs don't expect to be taking any
hits so....

On the Zero, they'd be wanting assurances it was safe to fly - thicker
sheetmetal would not necessarily make it unsafe to fly as long as it was
balanced properly, it might even make the plane safer. The main reason
to do it would be to reduce maintance requirements.

=S=

Lunatic

[evangilder]

All of the aircraft in the CAF that had fabric control surfaces, still do. Alot of the Zero restoration (about 60%) ofr the Zero that is in the photos was done in russia. Thicker sheetmetal will make the airplane heavier and could have an effect on the flight characteristics.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by RG_Lunatic

Well, that is not always true. On the Corsair for instance, virtually all flying planes have the wing fabric replaced with aluminum sheeting, and usually tail surface fabric too for that matter. The historic fabric is impossible to get - it was very expenensive and was soaked in a fireproofing liquid that it turned out was a significant health hazard for the crews working with it. Aluminum is much cheaper and much easier to maintain. The main purpose of the fabric covering was to reduce vulnerablity to enemy fire - civilian Corsairs don't expect to be taking any hits so....

On the Zero, they'd be wanting assurances it was safe to fly - thicker sheetmetal would not necessarily make it unsafe to fly as long as it was balanced properly, it might even make the plane safer. The main reason to do it would be to future reduce maintance requirements.

=S=

Lunatic

No - I disagree. I was involved with several restorations with the FAA and they it the same, period. If the control surface was fabric, you replaced it with fabric. If the Skin was .040 you replace it with .040. There's a thing called "approved data" and that's the data the manufacturer puts out in their maintenance manual. The FAA accepts this as gospel and without following these guidelines you're not getting an airworthiness certificate. When restoring a warbird, the Feds are very strict about this. To change it you need what you call a DER (Designated Engineering Representative) who will actually do the re-design. Restorers try to avoid these guys because they cost big bucks to hire.

Oh and the fabric on the Corsair - Irish Linen, doped on and held in place with sheet metal screws and lacetie, easily replaced by "Stits" an approved substitute that is ironed on then processed with dope replacement. Look at my jumbo photos (sorry) all those planes have fabric covered control surfaces.

[Soren]

Very nice pictures FLYBOYJ ! It is pretty obvious thw wings will sustain no damage from walking on them, wich i presume the instructor's at the place told you aswell.

[evangilder]

Still it kind of depends on the aircraft. We do have places clearly marked on the Zero where you are not supposed to put your feet. It might be okay if you are really light, but the Japanese writing on it says (in kanji) No Step. That could also be in an area that has little structure beneath and could cause it to dent. I don't think you would actually go through.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Soren

Very nice pictures FLYBOYJ ! It is pretty obvious thw wings will sustain no damage from walking on them, wich i presume the instructor's at the place told you aswell.

Thanks!

OH YEA

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by evangilder

Still it kind of depends on the aircraft. We do have places clearly marked on the Zero where you are not supposed to put your feet. It might be okay if you are really light, but the Japanese writing on it says (in kanji) No Step. That could also be in an area that has little structure beneath and could cause it to dent. I don't think you would actually go through.

Yep, and considering that your Museum's Zero is "priceless" to me any dent is about $25K!!!!

[evangilder]

Yep, it would be at least that much in dental work. If you dent the plane, the crew chief (or the pilot) would likely kick your teeth in!

FlyBoyJ,

Somewhere on the Dupont website is (or there was) a section concerning the fabric covering for the wings of the Corsair, which was a synthetic fabric which would not rip or tear (a for-runner of Tyvex). It was soaked in another Dupont chemical which it turned out was very harsh on the skin and lungs of the flight crews, in order to make it virtually fireproof. It had to be replaced frequently because it did have a tendancy to stretch.

This fabric was used on the wings to make them less susceptable to damage. I don't know if it was used on the other surfaces or not.

As I said before, the wings of all flying corsairs today use duraluminum, not fabric of any kind - so obviously the FAA is not quite so strict as you claim. Modifications can get approval.

=S=

Lunatic

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by evangilder

Yep, it would be at least that much in dental work. If you dent the plane, the crew chief (or the pilot) would likely kick your teeth in!

Oh yea - when someone uninvited goes near my jets I spool up like a top!

By the way, forgot to tell you, you guys did a great job on your birds! The Zero, Hellcat and Bearcat stole the show as far as restored WW2 aircraft. Seeing Semential Journey was cool, but seeing those 3 aircraft fly in formation was someting else!!

[evangilder]

They'll be happy to hear that. We do have a great group of guys down there.

[evangilder]

All Corsairs have duraluminum elevators? Care to make a wager on that one?

Originally Posted by evangilder

All Corsairs have duraluminum elevators? Care to make a wager on that one?

I didn't say that. I said all flying Corsairs have duraluminum in place of the fabric on the wings. I'm unsure about the elevators and rudder, they could well be canvas - the areas are much smaller and thus less subject to stretching issues.

[evangilder]

Okay, I misunderstood. I wasn't aware that late model Corsairs had any fabric in the wings, aside from the elevators and the rudder. I always consider the elevators part of the wing.