Focke Wulf Ta 152H.

Erich · 03-09-2005, 09:13 AM

ah Pierre Closterman and another pilot with fantaies. Rudi Wurff who was a pilot with several victories nearly shot Pierre out of the skies as he knocked off Pierre's wingman. Rudi made it through the war and was never shot down. Pierre also claims that Rudi alone shot down 4 Temepests in one action.........ah no

Pierre also gets coverage in our book towards the end as he and his wingman were flying over northern Germany and again Pierre loses another wingman but not to 2cm flak in which he thought but to another very fast German machine. It will be covered in detail in our book

Erich · 03-09-2005, 10:53 AM

boy my spelling sucks...............

Doras were not used in 1/2 the staffels as it was still a new bird. I do beleive I gave the units in another thread that operated the Fw 190D.

JG 2 was completely outfitted with them, IV./JG 26 and several other staffeln of JG 26 had them. 5-7th staffels in JG 301. Stab of JG 4. IV./JG 3 stab and one staffel of IV./JG 3 also equipped. 5-6 in the JV 44 Galland circus.

Still the unknown of JG 301 clims then that possibly Doras were used for airfield defence. Can tell you he never would of know about the JV 44 puny unit till much later after the war. Ah memories ow they falter after so many years.

Rudi Wurff shot down Clostermann's wingman on 21 April 1945 as his 3rd and last victory.

Fritzschke if he was a pilot in JG 301 scored a big fat 0, as he is not listed. As I said earlier the Ta's flew maybe 1-2 escort missions for the II./JG 301 Doras, NO Me 262 flights. Personally I don't think this man existed and I know for fact that Clostermann is a great story teller. In many historical circles the man is noted as such.

Erich ♪

GT · 03-09-2005, 11:49 AM

Update.

Erich · 03-09-2005, 11:58 AM

have no clue. If indeed the pic represents the a/c he shot down it is not a JG 301 a/c as it would of had a yellow/red rumpfband by the tail

JG 6 flew some Doras and they were not well marked. The problem with clostermanns books is that his operations are so fouled up none can tell what is true or not. given his fantasy about nailing a German port close to wars end and blasiting numerous floatplanes is just palin ridiculous as on the given date and with the proper research there were no float planes in the area. all had been previously sent to the Ost front for evacuation and in support of the last defensive battles there.....

GT · 03-09-2005, 12:09 PM

Update.

KraziKanuK · 03-09-2005, 12:14 PM

The Dora in the pic is WNr 212 133.

Erich · 03-09-2005, 12:18 PM

In my opinion and I am not alone, Clostermann may have had 13 kills

GT · 03-09-2005, 01:04 PM

Update.

Erich · 03-09-2005, 01:57 PM

sorry but Clostermanns claims some of them are not confirmed with German sosurces....... the Ju 290 for example.
The He 162 was never shot down in combat and it is extremely doubtful any JG 1 pilot shot down any Allied fighter in one. I have spoken with JG 1 vets and have both JG 1 histories. Schmdit's kill is still not confirmed by any sources..........

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-09-2005, 02:08 PM

Well again I can not verfiy any of those claims either but here is some stuff that I found.

Quote:

The He-162 finally saw combat in mid-April. On April 19, a captured Royal Air Force fighter pilot informed his Germans interrogators that he had been shot down by a jet fighter matching the description of a He 162. The Heinkel and its pilot were lost as well, shot down by a RAF Hawker Tempest while on the landing approach. Though still in training, from mid-April I/JG-1 had scored a number of kills, but had also lost thirteen He 162s and ten pilots. Ten of the aircraft losses were due to various technical malfunctions, such as engine flameouts and sporadic structural failures, and just two were shot down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Clostermann

Erich · 03-09-2005, 02:13 PM

the story is not verified by the two JG 1 authors who are quite well known. It was considered but no confirmed. I would not beleive anything from clostermanns mouth. I see his bogus ground calims of ailplanes shot up in the 2nd taf book as fact in which it was not. this is news from a very old book prodcued before Clostermann did his two own books. Of course they are considered as fact as he put in the calims aand since he was a prime French ace and propaganda tool it is climed as such. interesting when we interviewed Pierre's private biographere, what he had to say about the kill confirmatations. he couldn't even cross check them.........like I said climing that Rudi shot down 3-4 Tempests and the 2cm flak incident which never happened.

do I sound opinionated or what ?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-09-2005, 02:27 PM

No sounds fine to me, hes a French Pilot anyhow (who cares that he flew for the RAF)

Erich · 03-09-2005, 02:31 PM

There were excellent French pilots including Closterman flying Tempests for the RAF; my personal beliefs is that Pierre was a good story teller.

Late war claims as we all have admitted whether Allied or German are hard to come by. many of 44 and 45 for the Germans have been lost inclusion of claims and losses. In fact it was in the fall of 44 when the Luftwaffe stopped the claims process system and officially awarding those claims.......so how do we know for sure one way or the other ?

E

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-09-2005, 02:37 PM

Pretty much all pilots not matter who they fly for tell stories though, it comes with the territory.

GT · 03-10-2005, 06:57 AM

Update.