The Fork-Tailed Devil..History of the P-38

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by P38 Pilot

Probably the Forked-Tailed Devil.

And who's Martin Cadin?

Caidin wrote a lot of aviation stuff in the 50s/60s I believe he co authored Saburo Sakai's book . his books were always readable some of his work on the early years of flight in the 20's and 30's are good reads

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by P38 Pilot

Well, from what I know, the P-38 became known to the Germans as "The Forked Tailed Devil" and put a hurt on the German Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe.

Not trying to pick on you now (have to say this because you will problably flip out by the way I am wording it ). But you are wrong. As FBJ stated with the author that penned it, it was a myth and is not true.

Here is some more info on it:

Luftwaffe did not call the P-38 a fork-tailed devil. They called it a preferred target, thanks to it's size and lack of maneuverability. P-38 was a much feared ground attack plane, and it's possible German ground forces called it that, but not Luftwaffe. The term first appears in a Stars And Stripes article about P-38Gs in North Africa, so it's possible the term has been coined for propaganda purposes by a journalist working for the magazine, or it has been heard from a German POW.
Talk:P-38 Lightning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the above article the only thing that I dont agree with is the comment about the P-38 having lack of maneuverability. She may not have been the most maneuverable but she was certainly not lacking.

[Gnomey]

I always thought it was a myth penned later as both Adler and FBJ have pointed out. Other than that it is a good history P-38

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Caidin wrote a lot of aviation stuff in the 50s/60s I believe he co authored Saburo Sakai's book . his books were always readable some of his work on the early years of flight in the 20's and 30's are good reads

His books were entertaining but filled with a lot of exaggerations and inaccuracies. He does tell an interesting story claiming that the 5th AF had 150 P-38Ls in Korea, 1949. The 5th received orders to transfer to P-51Ds. There was talk about transferring the P-38s to the South Koreans but the US State Dept. nixed the idea, so they were chopped up with axes and buried. Cadin claims he witnessed this along with several hundred other men. If true things at the opening months of the Korean War might of been a little different, especially when only communist recip aircraft were on scene.

[Aggie08]

Preferred target? I find that hard to imagine...

I'd bet the Japanese would have a much different nickname for this beauty!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I do not know if the Germans actually looked at the P-38 that way but compared to what they facing in thousands of P-47s and P-51s they probably did prefer to see the few P-38s that flew in the ETO.

[evangilder]

The fork tailed devil nickname is a myth. If that nickname first appeared in Stars and Stripes, well then, you have your answer...

-38, it is ok to post someone else's text, but you really should give the proper credit for both the text and pictures. Your posted text came from Lockheed P-38 Lightning

[Jabberwocky]

In the introduction to the the Osprey "P-38 Lightning Aces of the MTO & ETO" the first paragraph reads:

"Sometime during the course of the war in Europe, German aircrew prisioners of war were surveyed as to the fighter types they would most and least prefer to meet in combat. Not suprisingly, the majority chose the Spitfire as the type they would least like to encounter, whilst the P-38 Lightning was selected as the fighter they would prefer to engage"

So maybe it really was the preferred target

[Jank]

Gnomey said, "I always thought it was a myth penned later as both Adler and FBJ have pointed out. Other than that it is a good history P-38"

I pointed it out first. Where's the credit? Where's the love?

[P38 Pilot]

Thanks Gnomey. I just wanted to give a history of the P-38 thats all...

[P38 Pilot]

Besides, some people here have reticuled me about not knowing my facts. I think the P-38 is a great fighter especially its service in the Pacific and if some of you need refreshing, Richard Bong and Tommy Mcguire flew the P-38 and became America's leading aces in WWII.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by P38 Pilot

.....reticuled.....

the word is "ridiculed"

And were not making fun of you on this thread. The story (myth) behind "fork tailed devil" needs to be clarified.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

P-38 know one redicules your for knowledge that you know, you just dont like being corrected.

Besides as Even put it, you need to source stuff when you take info directly from other peoples works. Otherwise it is called plagerism which guess what can get you sued and even jail time in the United States. You do it at school and you can be suspended or expelled. In College you will be thrown out of school and barred. Most Universities will not even look at you after that. And since it is a federal offense, there is a chance the military will not even look at you anymore, atleast to be an officer.

It would be something like this:

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
http://www.ThisIsNotMyInfoButSomeoneElses.com

[wmaxt]

The name "Forked Tailed Devil" was first reported by Earny Pile in Africa. It's source was a captured German pilot. It could just be that that pilot was cursing the aircraft that shot him down and it was taken further from there by others. However this was also at the same time Stienhoff complaned to Galland that the P-38 was "Clearly superior in speed and maneuverability to his aircraft. Maybe it was true but only at that time and place, who really knows?

The early P-38s had a complex system that took to much time to go from long range cruise to combat power - they were in trouble if caught in a bounce. Inexperienced pilots probably couldn't maneuver very well. The P-38 had a 3-4:1 kill ratio, the P-51s is about 2:1, so calling the P-38 easy pickings and a preferred target is certainly missguided. Another thig is that if it were the prefered target - why do both bomber crews and P-38 pilots stress that often the bombers that were covered by P-38s were bypassed by German fighters?

As I posted elsewhere, The P-38 flew just under 130,000 sorties in Europe. Roughly 30,000 of those were 9th AF. The 8th AF flew the rest, about 100,000 sorties and lost 451 P-38s, original source AAF Statistical Digest internet location of the 451 is 8th Air Force Combat Losses in World War II ETO Against the AXIS Powers . To put a counter point to it the P-51 lost (8th AF only) 2,201 aircraft in Europe. Including the sorties flown by the 9th AF, flew 214,000 sorties. Using the extended number of sorties but not counting the 9th AFs losses (~350) for the P-51 and the smaller number for the P-38 the P-51 still failed to return to base more than twice as often as the P-38. One final point, these are all the combat related losses including training accidents AND the early P-38s teething problems.

wmaxt

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And if I recall Pile was a reporter.

As stated it was just a myth.