 | Which Fw-190 ace shot down most P-51 and Spitfire?| Aviation Discuss Which Fw-190 ace shot down most P-51 and Spitfire? in the World War II - Aviation forums; Walter Dahl from his JG 300 days has been considered strongly as the highesst scoring ace against US fighters but ... |
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04-26-2005, 04:02 PM
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#16 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 9,003
Country:  | Walter Dahl from his JG 300 days has been considered strongly as the highesst scoring ace against US fighters but my personal beliefs is that JG 300 is one of the most vocal units about claims-overclaiming of many of the single engine fighters units in the Luftwaffe. Have friends that would stab me if they read this but I feel it is true and that Walter was full of crap............. | 
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04-27-2005, 01:39 PM
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#17 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country:  | Why do you belive that JG3000 was one of the worst ones when it came to overclaiming.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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04-27-2005, 02:10 PM
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#18 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 9,003
Country: | Adler :
my case in point. the CO of JG 300 Walter Dahl himself. It actually started on the first gefechtsverband with it's sister Sturm unit IV.Sturm/JG 3 on 7-7-44 during the Blitzschlacht über Oschersleben. while it was thought that Dahl committed himslef to the air battle he commanded from the ground with clear communication to IV.Sturm/JG 3's Gruppenkommandeur Willi Moritz during the setting up and carrying out of the attack. when the Sturm Fw pilots of IV.Sturm/JG 3 Walter Dahl was there to greet and congratualte them...........this is all on film which I have. Walter then as he had th scores added up made sure that Jg 300 pilots had their own scores {his unit} improved reatly for the days operation. but this is not the only one. all through July and even through the rest of the summer and fall months. the terrible slaughter of the US 445th bg on 27 September 44 comes to mind when JG 300 claimed a wild figure, and in reality the SturmFw's of IV.Sturm/JG 3 attacked first and took out 18 of the 30 B-24's with no SturmFw's being shot down by return bomber fire......
My firm belief though is that JG 300 during it's nachtjagd Wilde Sau and Helle Nacht against the LSNF Mossies is very much legit in scoring...
E ♪ | |
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04-27-2005, 02:16 PM
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#19 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | Aha I see.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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04-27-2005, 02:34 PM
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#20 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 9,003
Country: | it's always one side vs the other as to whom claimed more when the Luftwaffe unit(s) were in a unified state. Many times JG 3 and JG 300 flew together and when JG 4 developed it's SturmFw gruppe in septmeber 44 then there was another contender.
Am sure the JG 300 two volumes when publicized this spring/fall will be illuminating although I am not going to concede that all claims-kills were done by this Geschwader when flying with other units, i.e JG 3, JG 4 and late in the fall-winter when JG 301 when is in the area although JG 301 and 300 were the main stay of Reich Defence in the winter of 45 till war's end | |
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04-28-2005, 10:47 AM
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#21 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | Plus there was the whole competiton thing by different units. Rivalry makes for competetive nature and if used properly better and more cohesive units.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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06-22-2005, 08:40 PM
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#22 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Auburn,Alabama; USA
Posts: 1,934
Country: | Hmmm...... 
__________________  Its better to have an
Army of deer being led by a lion,
rather an Army of Lions being led by a deer... | |
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06-23-2005, 03:28 AM
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#23 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | Its true believe it or not. Competition can be good or bad. If used properly it can bring good results if used bad it can make for a lot of mistakes. I see it still a lot today between the different flights in our unit.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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06-23-2005, 03:51 PM
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#24 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country:  | cometiton mostly in the form of sport is still a huge part of the military today.........
__________________ 
"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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06-23-2005, 07:22 PM
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#25 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 9,003
Country: | side note on Steinemann: I do believe that all fighter kills were in the Bf 109 | |
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06-24-2005, 02:50 PM
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#26 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | As I said I coudl not confirm what was in a Bf-109 or a Fw-190 just who had the most kills.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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06-24-2005, 03:29 PM
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#27 | | Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Panamá
Posts: 47
Country:  | There is no doubt that JOSEF "PIPS" PRILLER was the slaughter of the Spitfires (6  and WILHELM STEINMAN punished hard the P-51s (11). | |
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06-25-2005, 09:29 AM
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#28 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | Priller shot down 68 Spitfires, yes.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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