Fw-190 Dora-9 vs P-51D Mustang

[FLYBOYJ]

I've done 7 when I new it was coming - there were times when "playing photographer" I got yanked into 5 or 6 Gs and easily grayed or blacked out.

I've also confirmed the 9 G requirement with some of the pilots at the academy - most of them do it through the centrifuge so its slowly applied and you know its coming, its the quick G load that gets you and could even pull muscles or worse if you're not prepared for it.

[Soren]

Yep, thats why its always nasty being the passenger in a fighter.

[Jabberwocky]

I've greyed out at about 5 Gs in the backseat of an L-39 during an aerobatics routine.

Anything more than about 4.5 Gs is really tough. You start to lose colour from your vision and your develop progressive tunnelvision.

It's no surpise that I'm not exactly a G monster though - I'm 193 cm/ 86 kg (thats 6'4", 190 lbs to all you heathens still on imperial). Most g-resistant pilots are lighter, stockier and MUCH smaller than me.

NASA did some interesting studies in the 50's and 60's with regard to women pilots and astronaughts. Very fit women are physiologically capable of handeling more G forces than very fit men are, because of their size and different body shape. Men seem to have better spacial orientation in violent manouvering flight but women are less likely to make mistakes and think more clearly and clinically in a dogfight situation. Apparently this is because estrogen is a better primary stimulant under some kinds of stress conditions than testosterone.

[lesofprimus]

Apparently this is because estrogen is a better primary stimulant under some kinds of stress conditions than testosterone.

This is quite true....

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Soren

Yep, thats why its always nasty being the passenger in a fighter.

Yep - when i got to go up fron in an L-29, it seemed I could take more Gs.

The few times I got to fly in the F-4 our chief pilot always had to come over the field fast and do the over head to land - a few times he caught me and I recovered as the wheels were touching the runway...

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

In the best fighter polls, the FW beat the Spitfire and the Mustang as top fighter plane.

In the best Fighter poll of all time the Spitfire beat the FW and the P-51.

Here it seems like some people think the Mustang is on par with the FW which means the spit is as well. Whats really the case?

[lesofprimus]

In the hands of equally capable pilots, the Dora was the better machine....

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

I guess the British lost one poll and won the other poll to make the Spit the best fighter aircraft.

And the FW fans didn't work as hard on the all time fighter poll as on the WWII best fighter poll to make the FW supreme.

Which goes to show polls can be out of balance I guess.

And of course all the P-51 got going for it agains't the FW is speed and maybe firepower and even those are only on par. The Mustang has the 6 hour Drop tanks. Buts that not much in dealing with FW fighters. Except it could attack from a farther distance than a FW good because of range. Whats given it the universal title of "best fighter plane of WWII" anyway?

One thing though. One this Warbird Forum poll of "Best fighter plane of WWII" the Corsair should have been next to the Spit or above it. Maybe it wasn't as good as the FW, but the Corsair was certainly as close to a Spitfire in beating it. And on the poll it's way near the bottom.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Was the P-51 better at higher altitudes than the FW say on the B-17 high altitude bomb runs when they fought each other?

Or did the FW beat it on that too?

And was the Spitfire XIV better at high altitude dogfights than the FW?

[Erich]

yes and it also beat out the Dora, the Ta 152C and H which the Stang never met would of reigned over the p-51. what made the Stang so special ......... the endurance of long range which no other Allied escort fighter had. this from interviews of many many 8th AF fighter jocks

[Soren]

The P-51 had good high altitude performance, the Dora didn't, simple as that.

At the altitudes where the bombers were flying the Dora-9's power had dropped significantly, and while the Dora-9's were climbing to engage the bombers the P-51's had a relatively easy time picking them off.

On the Eastern front however, where the fights were mostly down low, the Fw-190 Dora-9 enjoyed tremendous succes by virtue of its excellent low altitude performance, out-performing any adversary it met. And it was lucky for the Mustang pilots that they rarely had to tangle with the Dora-9 down low, where it was distinctly superior to the P-51 in every aspect of flight.

There really wasn't a fighter down low the Dora-9 couldn't beat.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Combat Aircraft of World War Two

Spitfire Mk. XIV versus FW190A

Early in1944 the Air Fighting Development Unit flew a Mk XIV Spitfire in a comparative trial against a captured Focke-Wulf 190A. The following are extracts from the official report.

SPITFIRE XIV VERSUS FW 190A
Maximum Speed: From 0-5,000 feet [0-1525 metres] and between 15,000-20,000 feet
[4573-6100 metres] the Spitfire XIV is only 20 mph [32 km/hr] faster than the FW190;
at all other heights it is up to 60 mph [97 km/hr] faster.

Maximum Climb: The Spitfire XIV has a considerably greater rate of climb at all altitudes.

Dive: After the initial part of the dive, during which the FW 190 gains slightly, the Spitfire XIV has a slight advantage.

Turning Circle: The Spitfire XIV can easily turn inside the FW 190. In the case of a right-hand turn, this difference is not so pronounced.

Rate of Roll: The FW 190 is very much better.

Conclusions: In defence, the Spitfire XIV should us its remarkable maximum climb and turning circle against enemy aircraft. In the attack it can affort to 'mix it' but should beware of the quick roll and dive.
If this maneuver is used by a FW190 and the Spitfire XIV follows, it will probably not be able to close
the range until the FW190 has pulled out of its dive.

From http://www.odyssey.dircon.co.uk/Spitfire14v190.htm

[Soren]

You do realise that you're comparing a Fw-190A3 with a Spitfire Mk.XIV right ? And that the Fw-190's engine isn't running properly, as-well as the fact that the ailerons aint adjusted properly either...

[KraziKanuK]

This is by one who calls himself Crumpp, who is part of the White 1 Foundation. He is a wealth of knowledge on the Fw190.

Posted on the CWoS board:

"That would be the ailerons when properly adjusted. Even the Luftwaffe had a difficult time in keeping the ailerons adjusted. Of all the great engineering found on the aircraft, the aileron adjusting blocks are certainly not one of them!"

So it would seem, the RAF's test a/c was not so far removed from a typical LW 190.

[Soren]

It is well known that up until the A-6 the Fw-190 had problems with its ailerons, and even the LW mechanics (The only ones who could properly correct this) sometimes found it hard to get right. This problem was solved with the introduction of the A-6 however.