Fw better then Me-262?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by bigZ

So if we take 100 hours as an average do think the dissimilar material construction would still present a problem?

It depends where the aircraft was operated from....

[delcyros]

Civettone,

try
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...ne-1745-2.html (Heinkel He-162 engine.)
post 23 for an explenation of the basic principle of Jumo-004 and -BMW-003 differences in reliability.
Any change of the gouvenor would have limited effect as long as there was no accelerator valve as was in the BMW-003. I have doublechecked my sources and can assure You that the -004D had none (the -004E V1-V6 prototypes had them). Therefore, it was comparably easy to burn out the turbine blades at accelerating from low rpm´s as the amount of fuel was relative to engine rpm and not relative to airflow. Still better than the -004B but worser than the BMW-003 or any british jet engine.
This was the main limiting factor for the lifetime of the turbine section. Careful accelerating could improve the lifetime of a Jumo-004B by some 80% or even more, rapid throttle changes could result in engines to start suffering at 10 hours and even less.

regards,
delcyros

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Hunter368

Would two different metals corrode each other faster in certain enviroments than others? Like if they were located near the ocean where it is more salty? compared to the dessart? Please explain if you can.

Salty environments such as areas near the ocean as well as humid and wet environments would deffinatly speed up the process I would think.

Whenever we flew near the ocean or over the ocean or the aircraft were on boats we had to flush our engines and clean the aircraft due to the corrosive effects of the salt.

We had Ballistic Protection Plates installed in our aircraft when were in Iraq and the screws were made of alluminum. The metal of the screws corroded to the plates and the airframe of the of the aircraft. I had to drill out every one of those damn screws just to get the plates out at the port so we could wash the aircraft and go back home.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by bigZ

The Smithsonian restorations of both the Arado 234 and 262 exhbited corrosion through disimilar materials especially in the wings.

Exactly. I have seen both of those aircraft up close and another Me 262 here in Germany.

[Erich]

have to chime in after seeing the Me 262 first hand at Chino, Cali. You really think the jet is overall much larger than what she really is. And still it is one of beauty. It looks fast just sitting on the tarmac

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree she is definatly a beautiful aircraft. I have seen a 262 a few times at various locations and to me she is one of the best looking aircraft of WW2 and still has a killer looking quality to her.

[FLYBOYJ]

agree Erich and Chris...

[Erich]

guys I think we need a few images ......... right ?

[FLYBOYJ]

Right!

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Salty environments such as areas near the ocean as well as humid and wet environments would deffinatly speed up the process I would think.

Whenever we flew near the ocean or over the ocean or the aircraft were on boats we had to flush our engines and clean the aircraft due to the corrosive effects of the salt.

We had Ballistic Protection Plates installed in our aircraft when were in Iraq and the screws were made of alluminum. The metal of the screws corroded to the plates and the airframe of the of the aircraft. I had to drill out every one of those damn screws just to get the plates out at the port so we could wash the aircraft and go back home.

I could not even imagine trying to provide parts and servicing fighters in the pacific, see how Japanese failed in WW2. I wonder how many Japanese planes were lost to enemy action and how many were lost to lack of parts or just worn out do to lack of proper servicing. Bet that number might be closer then many would believe LOL.

[FLYBOYJ]

And I recently seen a paper where a Japanese fighter pilot complains about the quality of JAAF aircraft...

[Soren]

Civettone,

Even if the Me-262 could've been produced in half as many numbers as the FW-190 it wouldn't have made much if any difference, the reliability of its engines was way too poor, they were simply too ahead of their time. Way more time would've been spent putting new engines on or repairing the ones still running than the Me-262 would ever spend flying....

[Soren]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

And I recently seen a paper where a Japanese fighter pilot complains about the quality of JAAF aircraft...

For the most part the quality of the a/c when leaving the factory was good (except near the end of the war), however like Hunter mentioned servicing of the aircraft in the field was most certainly not always optimal, esp. in the late war period .

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by Soren

For the most part the quality of the a/c when leaving the factory was good (except near the end of the war), however like Hunter mentioned servicing of the aircraft in the field was most certainly not always optimal, esp. in the late war period .

I would bet that the number lost to enemy action compared to lost to no spare parts or poor repairs were very close to each other. Japanese were very bad at supplying their bases with parts.

[Civettone]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

The allied aircraft were not really any better.

I didn't say that. I said the Fw 190 wasn't better than the allied fighters. I AM saying the Me 262 is better (once airborne).

Obviously the 262 would have an advantage. That has never been argued. I am looking at the overall scheme of things.

Ok, that's all I'm saying. I don't agree with the Me 262 being the answer to the German problems. I'm just saying that once airborne and the wings holding it was the best fighter aircraft. If it's not, then another fighter is, and I wouldn't know which one. Which could beat the Me 262 in a one-on-one (theoretically of course, so no surprise attacks, pilot errors, etc)?

We are not talking about a Ta-152 here. We are talking about the Fw-190.

I know but I don't see many people saying the same stuff about the Ta 152 as they say about the Me 262. Both had technical problems and weren't ready yet. But yet many consider it to be the best piston engined fighter. That doesn't make sense IMHO.

And even less fuel to fly the jets.
(...)
And since this is not a what if thread and could have, should have, would have dont matter because history is history fuel for the 262 was negligable.

No, they could have gotten more jet fuel than C3 fuel. They didn't, what makes this is a what-if. But a plausible one. I am making a point that the Germans should have concentrated on Me 262 production sooner than continuing with the Fw 190. So sure this is a what-if. Does that mean one cannot discuss these things?

The 262 was not going to go from 400mph to 500mph in 0.2 sec.

In some of the previous posts you'll read that one of the advantages of jet fighters is that they can keep up their maximum speed for a longer period.

Over time if these problems were not corrected on the Me 262 it would have caused structural failures in the Me 262.

As bigZ pointed out, what's the expected service duration of a German late-war fighter aircraft? And I'll ask you this for the second time, where and how did Me 262s lose fights due to structural problems?

Originally Posted by Delcyros

This was the main limiting factor for the lifetime of the turbine section. Careful accelerating could improve the lifetime of a Jumo-004B by some 80% or even more, rapid throttle changes could result in engines to start suffering at 10 hours and even less.

Thanks for clearing that out for me!
I also think you're right about the Jumo 004D. It has to be the 004E which had the modified governor. I just knew that they were going to build it, so I assumed it was with the 004D. Has to be with the next version. )

Kris