German mystery fighter?

[Civettone]

And wrong I was. LEMB is back online. I could easily edit my previous post but what the heck... I'm so delighted it's back!!

So anyway, about the discussions. If anyone likes to spend an evening reading through it. You'll have to register and login to see it though.
An alternative is to look at it through the google cache. Try this:
"mystery plane" "DB 604" - Google Search

Btw Soren, good call on the He 280. The resemblance was extensively discussed in that thread.

Kris

[W@CC0]

The link thing doesn't work, but no problem, then I'll register.

yeah, the db 604 is possible. I looked at some prototype drawings of other planes, and proposals with jumo 222, 223 and 224 engines, and the argus 413 had a similar exhaust lay out, so these are also possible.

A heinkel 280 is possible. Very possible
the v form in the wings, the tricycle undercarrige, the twin fin.

What if the Germans did the same with the He-280 as the Americans did with the first bell jet?

Heinkels engines weren't available yet. So he couldn't mount them on the plane. Except for that, the first prototypes were ready. Maybe they rolled it out, put some scrap on it to disguise it as some sort of otto fighter prototype and left it waiting for engines, test flight, whatever...
Glue some wood on the nose, bring a fake canopy forward, put on an prop and it looks completely different.

I'am just speculating, maybe the undercarrige isn't the same, or are the fins different or so.

Tom

[davparlr]

I don't know what the previous thread said about the pictures but I made a few measurement estimates. If the healthy German standing beside the aircraft is about 5'10", then the wingspan is about 28' and the propeller diameter is about 10'8". Then, since the man comes up to the thrust line of aircraft, I used this as a reference in other picture. That gives a length of about 36' (but I couldn't see the tail end of the plane and the picture is a bit skewed). Also I noted that the aircraft has low wing installation. The following is a comparison to the He-280:

The aircraft in the picture is smaller than the He-280, which has a wingspan of 39'4", and a length of 34'1.5" (close here). Also, the aircraft sit higher than the He-280 on longer gear (this would be expected of a propeller aircraft). There certainly is some error possibility in measurements. A more telling configuration is that the He-280 is a low mid-wing installation whereas the aircraft shown is not. The tail design is very similar and the wing design with with no dihedral for the inner most portion but with a slight dihedral outboard is very similar. Overall, I do not think this is a He-280 aircraft or one that is modifed, mainly due to the wing installation although the dimensions are also important.

A couple of confusion issues here is, first, the aircraft length is greater than the wingspan, an unsusal configuration for a WWII aircraft, certainly a propeller driven plane (the He-162 did have this design). Second, in order to harness the increased power, the propeller diameter of Allied aircraft with engines of similar HP as the Db 604 (2500+hp), had much larger propeller diameters (as much a 14'). I know German propeller were very efficient, but I doubt that they were that much more efficient.

So, I guess the question goes on.

[HealzDevo]

Certainly an interesting plane. Looks like an early prototype for the Pfiel without the back propellor to me...

[kool kitty89]

The cockpit was also too far foreward to be the 280...

A better comparison here: LuftArchiv.de - Das Archiv der Deutschen Luftwaffe

From what I've read, the He 280 was tested as a glider with no engines but with engine-shaped balasts fitted in place engines.

[HoHun]

Hi Koolkitty,

>The cockpit was also too far foreward to be the 280...

In my opinion, it's a frankensteined and photoshopped Heinkel He 280 kit.

Look at the landing gear for example ... it's exactly the same as on the He 280, but in the He 280 the main wheels retract into the fuselage though this is not possible here due to the fake being a low-wing aircraft. Still, no extended gear cover, no wheel well doors ...

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[delcyros]

Perhaps this is more a decoy aircraft installation? Kind of an attrappe rather than an flying testbed?

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Well if it is so, then it is a very well done fake.

Look closely at the upper right side propeller blade in the head-on shot.
Looks pretty "tacked on" to me.
The upper photo (port side rear 3/4 shot) is quite convincing though.

Not saying for sure what it is, but I wouldn't dismiss the photoshop theory, either.

...and speaking of theory's, has anyone thought about this?

Assuming for the moment that the photos are real, anyone think the prop could be a fake, to throw off spies or shun any thoughts that its a jet?
We did this very thing with the Bell XP-59.




Elvis

[Soren]

Being skeptical is always the easiest.

Personally I'm very unsure as to wether it's real or not, I mean it would be a masterpiece of photoshopping if it was fake, cause frankly I can't see anything fake'ish about the picture at all.

The cockpit looks like the same as used for the He-280, however the rest looks different. Could very well be an unknown LW a/c which got lost in the war.

In short I'm puzzled really..

[A4K]

The engine arrangement is reminiscent of the messerschmitt Me 155 -the project started in the Bf 109H series, and ending up as the Blohm und Voss Bv155 aircraft
The fueslage and tail arrangement really do resemble the He 280, though.

[Elvis]

You mean this one?

[A4K]

Sure do, my friend

Interesting looking beast, only 3 made by war's end (one of which is at Silver Hill awaiting restoration)

The Bv 155V-1 was completed and flown, but was written-off following a crash in the hands of a British pilot.

[machine shop tom]

I looked here:
Luft '46 - WWII German aircraft projects

but couldn't find anything similar to the OP pics.

tom

[Soren]

Take a look at those unusually large supercharger inlets on the BV-155, big yes, but for a purpose. This a/c had an amazing service ceiling of 17km (55,774 ft), a good 5km higher than any Allied a/c and 1.9km higher than the Ta-152H-1.

Yet another a/c at the pinnacle of piston engine a/c designs, a no less than amazing a/c.

[Soren]

Another picture.