A German Oscar?

[machine shop tom]

Ran across this while surfing:

Me-109X

http://www.xs4all.nl/~tozu/me109/fam...es/aj3-v21.jpg

Put some meatballs on it and it looks like an Oscar.

http://www.juniorgeneral.org/donated/john/oscar.GIF


tom

[Thorlifter]

Wow, it kinda does.

[B-17engineer]

Wow, That does look like it. Could Germany bought some and then re-named it? Also, added a DIfferent engine?

[Soren]

Just a MT prototype, not meant to be a copy of the Oscar but a 109 with a radial instead of inline engine.

[B-17engineer]

OK gotcha

[machine shop tom]

Originally Posted by Soren

Just a MT prototype, not meant to be a copy of the Oscar but a 109 with a radial instead of inline engine.

Right. A case of coincidental parallel development. Interesting how the Japanese eschewed the in-line (with a few exceptions) while the Germans thumbed their nose (for the most part) at radials.

tom

[magnocain]

Like this

and this

[claidemore]

Interesting thing; the canopy. Bubble type, all around vision, why didn't they put that on the inline Me109's? Obviously they could make it work on the radial prototype, what stopped them from switching the production 109s?

Also, no struts on the stabilizers. So is that photo the 1938 V-21 or the 1941 based on an F1 airframe?

I wonder what happened to the Japanese attaches in Berlin after Germany surrendered?

[Evil_Merlin]

Originally Posted by magnocain

Like this

Blech! The Nakajima J9Y Kikka.

Believe it or not it really wasn't directly based on the Me-262. The Kikka was smaller had much more simple wings and tail surfaces, and more importantly actually seemed to fly a bit better than the early Me-262 prototypes.

The Japanese actually built their turbojet, the Ishikawajima Ne-20, based off of German cut-away drawings and photographs. The engine they built was actually found to be more reliable than the BMW 003 it was a copy of according to testing done by the Americans following the war.

[Evil_Merlin]

Originally Posted by claidemore

Interesting thing; the canopy. Bubble type, all around vision, why didn't they put that on the inline Me109's? Obviously they could make it work on the radial prototype, what stopped them from switching the production 109s?

Also, no struts on the stabilizers. So is that photo the 1938 V-21 or the 1941 based on an F1 airframe?

I don't think so, it still has the flaps of the E models. The F-1 started with the two piece flaps if I'm not mistaken.

[magnocain]

Believe it or not it really wasn't directly based on the Me-262.

Like the "independent" and "not at all influenced by each other" American and Russian space shuttles?

[Soren]

Originally Posted by claidemore

Interesting thing; the canopy. Bubble type, all around vision, why didn't they put that on the inline Me109's? Obviously they could make it work on the radial prototype, what stopped them from switching the production 109s?

The reason they didn't shift to the bubble canopy is because it increases drag and therefore negatively affects the speed of the a/c. Als the vision with the modified Galland hood canopy was good enough.

Also, no struts on the stabilizers. So is that photo the 1938 V-21 or the 1941 based on an F1 airframe?

Only the Emil had these struts, all the later 109's had no struts on the stabilizers.

[Evil_Merlin]

Originally Posted by magnocain

Like the "independent" and "not at all influenced by each other" American and Russian space shuttles?

Nope, the Kikka was a totally different bird with very little in common with the Me-262.

[Kiwikid]

The Kika was smaller and used Italian jet engines. Japan did have a larger army copy of the Me-262, but as far as is known, no Jumo jet engines made it to Japan by U-boat, or at least not in time.

There are disputed claims that an Me 262 was in the cargo of U-234 however 70 tons of her cargo remain classified to this day (discrepancy between German manifest at Keil and USN manifest at New Hampshire).

[Soren]

Originally Posted by Evil_Merlin

The engine they built was actually found to be more reliable than the BMW 003 it was a copy of according to testing done by the Americans following the war.

Considering its abysmal performance that isn't surprising. The BMW-003 did after-all produce 40-45% more power and on top of that weighed less.