germany beats russians in 41 what does 2nd BoB look like

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by 102first_hussars

Though even with Russia being conquered I dont see Hitler allowing Russians to join their airforce or Army,

Actually there were allready Russian units in the German army made up of Russian soldiers that either A. defected or were B. Captured and decided to fight with the Germans or C. Hated Stalin and thought of Hitler as the lesser of the 2 evils atleast for the time being, that were fighting the Russians.

[102first_hussars]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Actually there were allready Russian units in the German army made up of Russian soldiers that either A. defected or were B. Captured and decided to fight with the Germans or C. Hated Stalin and thought of Hitler as the lesser of the 2 evils atleast for the time being, that were fighting the Russians.

Really? in that case we would be screwed and who knows Hitler may have introduced conscription to the Russians to join the German Force.

I dont know how people can say that if Russia fell to the Germans England would be just fine, they wouldnt If the Soviet Union fell Hitler would have forced the Russian people to join the German Forces, forced them to work as slave labourers, dozens of Schweinfurt sized factories could have been built in a short period of time due to large work force, fuel source was in close proximity(Oil Feilds in the Ukraine) thousands of newly trained a brainwashed Russian pilots would have equipted the Luftwaffe so heavily that it could bomb England as long they want, they could lose twice as many pilots and planes as they did in the actual BoB and keep on givin'er.
Face it the in this scenario cannot be be forced out of battle simply by air.

Now this doesnt necessarily mean the War would be lost. It just means alot of the Allies would be cramped up in Scotland,Ireland and Whales for the time being.

[syscom3]

The retraining and reequipping of all those hypothetical units would take months to do.

By the time that could have been accomplished, we could well be into late 1942. If that happenes we have to start factoring into our hypothesis that America is well mobilized for the war now, and is growing exponentially stronger each month.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by 102first_hussars

Really? in that case we would be screwed and who knows Hitler may have introduced conscription to the Russians to join the German Force.

Hitler never would have gotten eneogh Russian soldiers to make a difference though.

[Gnomey]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Hitler never would have gotten eneogh Russian soldiers to make a difference though.

Agreed, I don't believe he would have been able to get enough Russian troops to supplement the German and axis troops already in the line, plus it would take months if not years to train them all by which point the allies strength in Britain would of increased, making it even harder for the Germans to make a success out of a second attempt on the British Isles.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap my point exactly.

[102first_hussars]

In that case I go back to my original theory, which I see now is much more probable, either way

regardless of what people want to beleive England would be f*cked. No ifs or buts.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Disagree, with what was the Germans going to attack England with. There forces had to recover from the East. They would not have beaten Russia without being bloodied themselves.

[Gnomey]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Disagree, with what was the Germans going to attack England with. There forces had to recover from the East. They would not have beaten Russia without being bloodied themselves.

Agreed the British could have fairly easily survived a second so called Battle of Britain. Germany was not going to defeat Britain by bombing as they themselves where not defeated by bombing it was only a factor in their eventual defeat. The only way to defeat the British would have been an invasion for which the Germans never had the logistics to undertake or blockade by U-boats and this failed. Even if the Germans had more U-boats the allies anti submarine warfare was improving all the time to a point at which it was dangerous for a U-boat to be at sea. This can be seen in their losses which as the war drew to a close were exceded production. Of the servicemen in the U-boats 75% did not see the end of the war (at least according to the figures I have seen). Germany could not afford those kind of losses even if Russia had been defeated. Just my opinion but I see no way for the Germans to defeat the British. Surrender would be a possibility but I think even this would have been hard for the Germans to achieve even with Russia out of the war.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The most that it coudl have done is prolong the war and nothing else.

[Gnomey]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

The most that it coudl have done is prolong the war and nothing else.

Exactly, and even then in my opinion the outcome would of been the same (German defeat) or an negociated (sp?) surrender. There was no way with the set up the Germans had that they could effectively 'knock' Britain out of the war especially after the US had joined.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I believe had the war been prolonged long eneogh eventually an attempt on Hitlers life would have eventually succeded and a negotiated surrendure would have happened. This negotiated surrendure however would have been all the terms of the allies but it would have been a much better situation for Germany.

[Parmigiano]

I agree on the point that after defeating USSR Germany would not have the strenght to invade Britain, I have some doubt that the outcome of war would have been the same.
In my opinion Germany could have been strong enough to force UK+USA to a stall situation, creating two blocks similar to the 'cold war' scenario: continental Europe ruled by the Germans and USA-UK on the other side.

Interesting point could be 'what about the Orient' : maybe China would have tried to join the Russian 'partisans' and create a third block of powers (in that scenario USA+UK and Germany would probably not be strong enough to play a leader role in the Far East)

Real critical point of balance would still be the Middle East and his oil, whitout of course Israel as independent state.
The territory would have been contended by the 3 powers, with the 'Anglo-Saxon' block in slight disadvantage because of geography, and maybe trying to focus expansion on South America.

wow, if I hit the lotto and can live one year without work I'll make some reserch and write a fantasy book....

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Parmigiano

In my opinion Germany could have been strong enough to force UK+USA to a stall situation, creating two blocks similar to the 'cold war' scenario: continental Europe ruled by the Germans and USA-UK on the other side.

Now that would have been an interesting scenerio.

[plan_D]

Hussars:"Oil Feilds in the Ukraine"

Since when has there been oil fields in Ukraine? Ukraine was famous for it's coal and grain, not oil. Oil was to come from the Caucasus region.

I cannot be bothered to stretch this reply, but had the Soviet Union been pushed past the Urals then Germany would not have an awful lot freed up for any more actions. However, Britain would be hard pushed in North Africa with new action from Germany.

The Suez Canal would be a priority of the German forces, to split the Empire in two would wreak havoc on Britain. However, Britain would not allow. The British 8th Army had numbers of tanks deployed in North Africa that the opposing German forces could only dream of in such a small theatre (in comparison to the East). Rommel was already reeling, and the only hope of Germany winning North Africa by late 1942 was to drive over the Caucasus mountains, down through Turkey (would they join Germany, or fight?) and into Persia, Syria and Palestine then on to Eygpt. Would they do it in time? I don't think so.