Hellcat Vs The Zero - Aircraft of World War II

Hellcatgirl5785 · 01-23-2007, 02:19 PM

Which aircraft did you prefer personally as you can probably tell by my user name I perfered the Grumen F6F Hellcat which was an update of the F4F Wildcat and killed the most Zero's of the war

twoeagles · 01-23-2007, 02:44 PM

Leroy Grumman would probably forgive your misspelling his name, Hellcatgirl.
As for aircraft choice, in a real fight it's the big 'Cat. But if I could own
either one today, it would be an original A6M2 with Sakae engine - so
very rare. My Dad, an old F6F pilot in WW2 would understand. He always
wanted to fly a Zero himself.

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-23-2007, 03:14 PM

unless the F6F pilot's stupid enough to get into a slow turning fight it has to be the F6F...........

Gnomey · 01-23-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

unless the F6F pilot's stupid enough to get into a slow turning fight it has to be the F6F...........

Agreed.

timshatz · 01-23-2007, 05:12 PM

Heard flying the Wildcat was like driving a sports car while flying the Hellcat was like driving a station wagon. Comfortable, predictable. Works for me.

Thorlifter · 01-23-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoeagles

But if I could own either one today, it would be an original A6M2 with Sakae engine - so very rare.

Ditto

timshatz · 01-23-2007, 08:06 PM

Zero isn't made for pilots of any height. At least that is what I've read. Figure if you are in the range of 5'5", you'll be ok. But 5'9"+ and it'll get tight fast. Small cockpit.

twoeagles · 01-24-2007, 08:14 AM

Yes - that has been a problem for me - I was probably as big as one could be
and still fly the A-4. I am 6-1 and 220 pounds, so I would have to fly
the A6M with the canopy open!!! Oh Lord you know I would love to.

timshatz · 01-24-2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoeagles

Yes - that has been a problem for me - I was probably as big as one could be
and still fly the A-4. I am 6-1 and 220 pounds, so I would have to fly
the A6M with the canopy open!!! Oh Lord you know I would love to.

You and I are the same size. Them thar little birds aren't made for us. We'd look like Shaq in a Toyota. Head sticking out the sunroof!

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-26-2007, 01:06 PM

that being said the Japaneese were/are far smaller than westerners so to them 5"8's quite large.......

GregP · 02-07-2007, 09:38 PM

About the Zero cockpit being too small, all you have to do is modify it with a lower, adjustable seat. The Planes of Fame Museum HAS one (with the original Sakae engine), and it is flyable by tall pilots because it was refit for taller pilots.

The Hellcat is, by far, the best fighter ever used against the A6M series and it decimated the Zero. Still, if an experienced piolot were in the cockpit of the Zero, it was dangerous to ANY opponent right up to the war's end.

By the end of 1943, Japan had lost a LOT of senior pilots and the Zeros were being flown by green trainees. If the U.S.A. had experienced the same thing, WE would have experienced a LOT of missing F6F's.

I'd say the war went our way, but NOT overly due the Zero being a poor fighter. It was more that Japan bit off more than it could keep against a LARGE, PISSED-OFF war machine. People tend to get angry when suddenly attacked without warning or provocation. THAT went a LONG way toward explaining away what happened in the Pacific Theater.

syscom3 · 02-08-2007, 12:35 AM

The Hellcat didnt start scoring big time untill middle 1944 when the carrier task forces began roaming the Pacific at will.

While the Hellcat had tremendous success through out the time it was introduced into combat untill the that time, there really were no big time battles it flew in, and even then, they were few between.

Throughout 1943, the majority of the Japanese naval pilots that were shot down, were thrown away in the SW Pacific (New Guinie and Solomons) to Corsair's, P40's and P38's.

renrich · 02-09-2007, 06:07 PM

The first action Hellcats were involved with was on Aug. 28, 1943. VF 43 escorted bombers from Guadalcanal. The Hellcats are later based at Munda and in 3 weeks claim 21 Zeros shot down for the loss of 4 F6F-3s. Hellcats are credited with 5156 enemy airplanes downed in the Pacific. The British Hellcats in the Pacific add a further 47 aircraft destroyed. Hellcats in Europe claim 13 enemy AC. The total is 5216 in two years. Appox. 270 Hellcats are lost ACM. Ratio is 19:1.

syscom3 · 02-09-2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrich

The first action Hellcats were involved with was on Aug. 28, 1943. VF 43 escorted bombers from Guadalcanal. The Hellcats are later based at Munda and in 3 weeks claim 21 Zeros shot down for the loss of 4 F6F-3s. Hellcats are credited with 5156 enemy airplanes downed in the Pacific. The British Hellcats in the Pacific add a further 47 aircraft destroyed. Hellcats in Europe claim 13 enemy AC. The total is 5216 in two years. Appox. 270 Hellcats are lost ACM. Ratio is 19:1.

And between May 1942 and Aug 1943, it was USN pilots in Wildcats and later Corsairs that shot down the cream of the IJN fighter corps. And that doesnt include the USAAF P38's and P40's doing their part at Guadalcanal and New Guinie.

renrich · 02-10-2007, 02:26 PM

Of course, you are right on. What you just pointed out is the reason I would place Joe Foss up near the top in ww2 fighter pilots. All of his kills were in the F4F-4 and they were while many of the top IJN pilots were still around. In addition the living conditions and maintenance of aircraft on Guadalcanal left a lot to be desired. He was a great pilot and marksman and he knew how to get the most out of the aircraft he flew.

01-23-2007, 02:19 PM	#1
Hellcatgirl5785 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3	Hellcat Vs The Zero Which aircraft did you prefer personally as you can probably tell by my user name I perfered the Grumen F6F Hellcat which was an update of the F4F Wildcat and killed the most Zero's of the war

01-23-2007, 03:14 PM	#3
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	unless the F6F pilot's stupid enough to get into a slow turning fight it has to be the F6F........... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

01-26-2007, 01:06 PM	#10
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	that being said the Japaneese were/are far smaller than westerners so to them 5"8's quite large....... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

02-08-2007, 12:35 AM	#12
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,784	The Hellcat didnt start scoring big time untill middle 1944 when the carrier task forces began roaming the Pacific at will. While the Hellcat had tremendous success through out the time it was introduced into combat untill the that time, there really were no big time battles it flew in, and even then, they were few between. Throughout 1943, the majority of the Japanese naval pilots that were shot down, were thrown away in the SW Pacific (New Guinie and Solomons) to Corsair's, P40's and P38's. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

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01-23-2007, 02:44 PM	#2
twoeagles Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chambersburg Posts: 673	Leroy Grumman would probably forgive your misspelling his name, Hellcatgirl. As for aircraft choice, in a real fight it's the big 'Cat. But if I could own either one today, it would be an original A6M2 with Sakae engine - so very rare. My Dad, an old F6F pilot in WW2 would understand. He always wanted to fly a Zero himself.

01-23-2007, 05:12 PM	#5
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,799	Heard flying the Wildcat was like driving a sports car while flying the Hellcat was like driving a station wagon. Comfortable, predictable. Works for me.

01-23-2007, 08:06 PM	#7
timshatz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Phila, Pa Posts: 3,799	Zero isn't made for pilots of any height. At least that is what I've read. Figure if you are in the range of 5'5", you'll be ok. But 5'9"+ and it'll get tight fast. Small cockpit.

01-24-2007, 08:14 AM	#8
twoeagles Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chambersburg Posts: 673	Yes - that has been a problem for me - I was probably as big as one could be and still fly the A-4. I am 6-1 and 220 pounds, so I would have to fly the A6M with the canopy open!!! Oh Lord you know I would love to.

02-07-2007, 09:38 PM	#11
GregP Banned Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 110	About the Zero cockpit being too small, all you have to do is modify it with a lower, adjustable seat. The Planes of Fame Museum HAS one (with the original Sakae engine), and it is flyable by tall pilots because it was refit for taller pilots. The Hellcat is, by far, the best fighter ever used against the A6M series and it decimated the Zero. Still, if an experienced piolot were in the cockpit of the Zero, it was dangerous to ANY opponent right up to the war's end. By the end of 1943, Japan had lost a LOT of senior pilots and the Zeros were being flown by green trainees. If the U.S.A. had experienced the same thing, WE would have experienced a LOT of missing F6F's. I'd say the war went our way, but NOT overly due the Zero being a poor fighter. It was more that Japan bit off more than it could keep against a LARGE, PISSED-OFF war machine. People tend to get angry when suddenly attacked without warning or provocation. THAT went a LONG way toward explaining away what happened in the Pacific Theater.

02-09-2007, 06:07 PM	#13
renrich Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado Posts: 3,492	The first action Hellcats were involved with was on Aug. 28, 1943. VF 43 escorted bombers from Guadalcanal. The Hellcats are later based at Munda and in 3 weeks claim 21 Zeros shot down for the loss of 4 F6F-3s. Hellcats are credited with 5156 enemy airplanes downed in the Pacific. The British Hellcats in the Pacific add a further 47 aircraft destroyed. Hellcats in Europe claim 13 enemy AC. The total is 5216 in two years. Appox. 270 Hellcats are lost ACM. Ratio is 19:1.

02-10-2007, 02:26 PM	#15
renrich Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montrose, Colorado Posts: 3,492	Of course, you are right on. What you just pointed out is the reason I would place Joe Foss up near the top in ww2 fighter pilots. All of his kills were in the F4F-4 and they were while many of the top IJN pilots were still around. In addition the living conditions and maintenance of aircraft on Guadalcanal left a lot to be desired. He was a great pilot and marksman and he knew how to get the most out of the aircraft he flew.