How good was Japanese aviation? - Page 4 - Aircraft of World War II

03-20-2005, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheddar cheese

But being Japanese it wasnt exactly hard to take out.

Actually the Ki-84 was well armored for a Japanese plane. It had a very thick 13mm steel seat-bucket. This was some of the thickest fighter armor of the war - but it was made of very soft steel, it was pounded into shape using hammers which cannot be done with hardened rolled steel. It also had a thick peice of armor glass, but this was situated inside the canopy and had poor transparancy and was almost always removed - the pilot perfering to be able to see over being protected from forward fire. It also had self sealing fuel tanks, but Japanese self-sealing tanks were rather poor and ineffective.

=S=

Lunatic

CharlesBronson · 03-20-2005, 02:44 PM

The "Panama channel Bomber"

03-20-2005, 03:28 PM

It was an interesting concept. In late 1944 the IJA wanted to use these to drop plague bombs on San Diego and other W. Coast cities. The IJN would not go along with it - not for moral reasons, simply because they hated the IJA!

=S=

Lunatic

mosquitoman · 03-20-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by "RG_Lunatic

the sub happened to be named U-235), and the other was sunk before it reached Japan.

Somebody in the KM had a sense of humour

DaveB.inVa · 03-21-2005, 12:29 AM

I always thought it was petty how the IJN and IJA pitted against each other all the time. Each had their own atomic bomb programs and such... they might have got somewhere if they'd cooperated!

Anyway RG care to explain PETN??

03-21-2005, 01:08 AM

Pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN) is in many ways similar to cyclonite (RDX), but it is even less stable in its pure form. Usually, like RDX, it is mixed with TNT (and sometimes wax) to form the explosive pentolite, which provides stability (and more power than pure TNT). It is also used as the core explosive in primacord fuses used in demolitions and as a booster charge for blasting. PETN is an "initiating explosive", meaning it it quite sensitive to heat, friction, or percussion. By comparison, TNT and Black Powder are considered non-initiating explosives, requiring some kind of initiator or much more significant levels of heat, friction, or percussion to set them off. They are considered seperate classes of explosives for this reason.

The Japanese used this explosive in their HE rounds because it didn't requre a fuse so a little more HE could be stuffed into the shell. It was known to sometimes explode in the barrel or feed mechanism, espeically if there was a jam or misfire, or if the gun got hot.

Like nitro, it is also used in pill form as a vasodialator for treatment of chest pain

=S=

Lunatic

GT · 03-21-2005, 04:31 AM

Update.

hellmaker · 03-21-2005, 05:29 AM

The Japanese Airforce was indeed impresive...but what I find the most moving was it's pilots...they were the most dedicated pilots the world has ever seen(I truly respect the Kamikaze pilots...they gave their life for their country...no other pilot had the heart to make the ultimate sacrifice). Of course they took it to the extreme with recognising the ones that completed their missions and disshoner the ones that failed in their attempts... The planes weren't heavily armed or protected because they would fill them up with explosive... A sunken enemy ship was far more important than one single plane... The reenforced armour would have been a minus, making the results of the impact less severe...

GT · 03-21-2005, 01:16 PM

Update.

03-21-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT

Let´s leave the Us testing and see what combat history the Hayate had. The Army fighters Ki-84-1as that fought in Leyte with 1, 11 22, 29, 51, 52, 71, 72 and 200th Sentais and proved itself to be a redoubtable adversary and Ki 841a could out-climb and outmaneuver all Allied fighters, and at medium and low altitude it was as fast as the P-51D and P-47D and Ki 84 1a was faster than all other Allied aircraft's.

Because the Hayate was so enthusiastically received by operational pilots the improved Ki 84 was fitted with various models of the Ha-45, culminating in the model 23 (Ha-45-23) a modification of the more common Army Type 4 Model (Ha-45-21), fitted with a low-pressure fuel injection-system engine and that was after the operations in the Philippines. GT

Leaving out the Ki-84 rebuilt at the Middletown Air Depot in Pennsylvanial and tested using 140 av-gas at Clark field, the performance of the plane was:

392 mph @ 20,080 feet, cruising speed was 277 mph, and climb to 16,405 feet was 5 mins 54 secs. Ceiling was 34,450 feet, and range was 1,347 miles (with drop tank).

Ten Sentais were equiped with the Ki-84 in the Philapines and were soundly defeated by US fighters. There is no huge spike in US losses to indicate this was a "super plane" as you describe it to be.

The Frank did do moderately well in the China theater, where it faced P-40's and relatively few P-51A's and very few P-51B's of General Chennault's 14th Air Force.

As for being faster than the US planes, it was faster than the P-40, but slower than the P-51, which was capable of 405 mph on the deck (using +25 lbs boost). Climbrate of the P-51B was 6 mins 20 seconds to 20,000 feet, making it somewhat superior in climb over the Frank. The P-51D, fully loaded with fuel (-25 gallons in the rear tank) climbed to 20k in 7.3 minutes, making it about equal to the Frank. The F4U-1d of 1944 equaled or exceeded the Ki-84 in almost every catagory except low speed turn, and the F4U-4 exeeded it in every catagory except low speed turn. The low pressure fuel system of the Franks worked poorly, and was known to cut out spontaneously, especially in turns, largely negating the "turn advantage" this plane was supposed to have. High altitude performance was poor.

Finally, while much better armored than earlier Japanese fighters, the Ki-84 was still not a rugged aircraft by comparision with US fighters. The 12-13 mm seat bucket is hand pounded and welded from obviousluy mild steel. The armor glass was virtually always removed so the pilot could actually see forward. The self-sealing fuel tanks were of little use against .50 class ammo. And finally, the plane was of light construction making it generally suceptable to quick damage from .50 class hits.

The Frank was a big improvement over earlier Japanese aircraft, but it still didn't even the playing field vs. the first line US fighters it faced.

=S=

Lunatic

GT · 03-31-2005, 04:54 AM

Update.

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-31-2005, 01:18 PM

i love all these animations you have..........

GT · 03-31-2005, 02:38 PM

Update.

CharlesBronson · 04-06-2005, 01:34 PM

Other interesting Ki-84, but project only.

the lancaster kicks ass · 04-07-2005, 04:40 AM

sweet.......

03-21-2005, 12:29 AM	#50
DaveB.inVa Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 224	I always thought it was petty how the IJN and IJA pitted against each other all the time. Each had their own atomic bomb programs and such... they might have got somewhere if they'd cooperated! Anyway RG care to explain PETN?? __________________ Fighter pilots make movies.... Bomber pilots make history!

03-21-2005, 04:31 AM	#52
GT Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 503	Update. Last edited by GT; 03-27-2006 at 07:33 AM.

03-21-2005, 01:16 PM	#54
GT Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 503	Update. Last edited by GT; 03-27-2006 at 07:34 AM.

03-31-2005, 04:54 AM	#56
GT Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 503	Update. Last edited by GT; 03-27-2006 at 07:35 AM.

03-31-2005, 01:18 PM	#57
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	i love all these animations you have.......... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

03-20-2005, 02:44 PM	#47
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 2,999	The "Panama channel Bomber"

03-20-2005, 03:28 PM	#48
Anonymous Guest Posts: n/a	It was an interesting concept. In late 1944 the IJA wanted to use these to drop plague bombs on San Diego and other W. Coast cities. The IJN would not go along with it - not for moral reasons, simply because they hated the IJA! =S= Lunatic

03-21-2005, 01:08 AM	#51
Anonymous Guest Posts: n/a	Pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN) is in many ways similar to cyclonite (RDX), but it is even less stable in its pure form. Usually, like RDX, it is mixed with TNT (and sometimes wax) to form the explosive pentolite, which provides stability (and more power than pure TNT). It is also used as the core explosive in primacord fuses used in demolitions and as a booster charge for blasting. PETN is an "initiating explosive", meaning it it quite sensitive to heat, friction, or percussion. By comparison, TNT and Black Powder are considered non-initiating explosives, requiring some kind of initiator or much more significant levels of heat, friction, or percussion to set them off. They are considered seperate classes of explosives for this reason. The Japanese used this explosive in their HE rounds because it didn't requre a fuse so a little more HE could be stuffed into the shell. It was known to sometimes explode in the barrel or feed mechanism, espeically if there was a jam or misfire, or if the gun got hot. Like nitro, it is also used in pill form as a vasodialator for treatment of chest pain =S= Lunatic

03-31-2005, 02:38 PM	#58
GT Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 503	Update. Last edited by GT; 03-27-2006 at 07:35 AM.

04-06-2005, 01:34 PM	#59
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 2,999	Other interesting Ki-84, but project only.

04-07-2005, 04:40 AM	#60
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	sweet....... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

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