 | Interceptor vs Escort.| Aviation Discuss Interceptor vs Escort. in the World War II - Aviation forums; Originally Posted by lesofprimus
but an experianced pilot could pull the throttles back, put the props in flat pitch and ... |
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08-01-2005, 05:26 PM
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#136 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by lesofprimus Quote: |
but an experianced pilot could pull the throttles back, put the props in flat pitch and s-turn to keep the plane out of serious trouble.
| Dont know if he would want to do that in a combat situation tho.... Bouncing from High Outta the Sun in the ETO was a problem for -38 pilots that never really got resolved, other than sendin them to the PTO... | The P-38s and the other escorts at the time were restricted to "close escort" they were not allowed to get further than 2,000ft from the bombers. Early P-38s through H models had a service ceiling of 40,000 to 42,000ft it's not that they couldn't, they wern't allowed to. The late P-38s J/L had a service ceiling of 44,000ft and were allowed to roam, that stopped the high altitude bounces.
Most issues with the P-38 in the ETO stemmed directly from 8th AF operating policies. Cold Cockpits and inadequate intercoolers (up to the J) and Compressability were the only issues that were inhearent in the P-38 it self (and that was enough). All these issues were corrected by the J-25 model which entered service early spring of '44. Remember Alaska they flew Colder (-70 in the air -50 on the ground), just as far and had very few aborts from any cause except weather over the target. They flew higher manifold pressure and lower RPM keeping the engines and cockpits warmer than the ETO where the operating policies were Higher RPM and low (cold) manifold pressure.
The late J/Ls also had dive flaps that kept them out of compressability.
wmaxt | 
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08-01-2005, 05:30 PM
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#137 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country:  | Some of that equipment (ie the intercoolers) were GFE - equipment that sucked, but the government wanted it installed and Lockheed took the blame by the operators 
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08-01-2005, 05:51 PM
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#138 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
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Country: | The dive flaps helped the compressibility, but did not eliminate it altogether. I spoke with veteran P-38 pilot that had very inadequate training, and this was in 1945. He said the airplane scared the devil out of him until he got used to it. He also said that if he had lost an engine on takeoff in his first 15-20 hours, he would have been in serious trouble.
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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08-02-2005, 03:41 PM
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#139 | | Senior Member
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| Quote: |
Originally Posted by evangilder The dive flaps helped the compressibility, but did not eliminate it altogether. I spoke with veteran P-38 pilot that had very inadequate training, and this was in 1945. He said the airplane scared the devil out of him until he got used to it. He also said that if he had lost an engine on takeoff in his first 15-20 hours, he would have been in serious trouble. | That doesn't surprise me but heres something about the training vrs accidents in the P-38. In rates per 100,000 flying hours, in 42 the rate of operational fifgters were as follows:
A-36 - 409
P-38 - 234
P-39 - 351
P-40 - 507
P-47 - 245
P-51 - 102
By 45 and with more experiance in training it was
A-36 - Discontinued
P-38 - 78
P-39 - 156
P-40 - 115
P-47 - 94
P-51 - 79
The P-38 had its quirks but it really wasn't a killer like it it gets accused of sometimes, nor was it hard to fly, even though it was more complicated than, say the P-51.
wmaxt | |
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08-02-2005, 03:51 PM
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#140 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,728
Country: | Yes, but a few of the late war pilots I spoke with all said that the training on the P-38 was inadequate, at best. Most of those guys came from single engine fighters, so they had some flying experience already. But they had no experience with multi-engines.
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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08-02-2005, 03:51 PM
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#141 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
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| I just saw an interesting interview with Robin Olds. In his second encounter with German aircraft and his third kill he dropped his external tanks without switching his fuel selector so both fans quit durring his attack, which he brought down dead stick. His first and second kills were Fw-190s in a turning fight below 15,000ft.
In Vietnam he was creditted with 4 kills but there are rumors that he had at least 1 or 2 more but didn't take credit because if he did he would be pulled out of combat. When asked, his comment was "I Choose not to answer".
wmaxt | |
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08-02-2005, 04:01 PM
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#142 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt I just saw an interesting interview with Robin Olds. In his second encounter with German aircraft and his third kill he dropped his external tanks without switching his fuel selector so both fans quit durring his attack, which he brought down dead stick. His first and second kills were Fw-190s in a turning fight below 15,000ft.
In Vietnam he was creditted with 4 kills but there are rumors that he had at least 1 or 2 more but didn't take credit because if he did he would be pulled out of combat. When asked, his comment was "I Choose not to answer".
wmaxt | I'm working with a guy right now who flew with him in the 555th.
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08-02-2005, 04:06 PM
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#143 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ
I'm working with a guy right now who flew with him in the 555th.
| Cool!  | |
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08-02-2005, 04:15 PM
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#144 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ
I'm working with a guy right now who flew with him in the 555th.
| Cool! | He actually flew with him in Nam - I'll hit him up for some info tomorrow!
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08-02-2005, 07:00 PM
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#145 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
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Country: | Excellent... My Dad met Robin Olds several times before.... Ill have to see what he says about that....
I talked to a few -38 pilots in my time, and just about 100% of them were intimidated by the aircraft and the many different challenges that a dual engined plane can throw at u... The plane just flew differently with the twin boom...
But once they mastered it, they were efficient killing machines and thought the craft the best thing in the sky...
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08-02-2005, 08:15 PM
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#146 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
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Country: | Yep, that's been my experience as well, intimidated at first. But once they got used to them, they did like them.
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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08-02-2005, 08:36 PM
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#147 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by lesofprimus But once they mastered it, they were efficient killing machines and thought the craft the best thing in the sky... | Agree - so good it was used to assinate an Admiral!
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08-02-2005, 08:54 PM
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#148 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,182
Country: | Still one of the greatest things that happened in WWII for me... What a mission......
DAMN!!
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08-03-2005, 03:32 PM
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#149 | | Der Crewchief
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Country:  | Cool cant wait to here what he has to say about him.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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08-03-2005, 03:41 PM
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#150 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Country: | The fellow I work with who served under Robin Olds, Larry Rider is a Sales Rep for Ximango Aircraft - didn't come in today - I'll hit him up the next time I see him.
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