 | Interceptor vs Escort.| Aviation Discuss Interceptor vs Escort. in the World War II - Aviation forums; Not intended as such, I assure you. What I was trying to get over - somewhat clumsily, as it turned out - ... |
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06-29-2005, 10:36 AM
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#16 | | Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 38
| Not intended as such, I assure you. What I was trying to get over - somewhat clumsily, as it turned out - is that quoting numbers can't be taken as a basis of comparison on the efficiency (or effectiveness) of any two aircraft because so many secondary factors come into play. How, for instance do the (wholly admirable) figures supplied by Soren convey the fact that the view from a 109 - any 109 - was practically non-existent?
A 262 could leave everything panting in its wake, but those engines had a live of just 25 hours or less and were as thirsty as all hell. Gliders are sitting ducks. And just think of the way the Luftwaffe was outnumbered in the last year or so...
See what I mean? | 
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06-29-2005, 11:16 AM
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#17 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,004
Country:  | Bottom line the -109 K4 was a better performer than the Mustang. The Mustang could compete but it was the shear numbers of Mustangs and Germany's lack of fuel that led to the ultimate demise!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | 
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06-29-2005, 12:10 PM
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#18 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country:  | agreed........
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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06-29-2005, 12:24 PM
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#19 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country: | The one thing I give accolades to the Mustang is it was competitive and was able to bring the fight into Germany. Other than that I have always felt it was over-rated. I think later model P-38s and P-47s were better aircraft.
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06-29-2005, 12:27 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country: | The P-51 was an easy plane to handle though, it was largely forgiving for the many rookie pilots that flew her. It took the fight to Germany, it also must have had something going for it because the Soviet Union used weight in numbers as well but their numbers were much-much higher.
The P-51 was also easy to build and maintain. So, personally the performance of plane as a dogfighter is over-rated. The plane itself is not nor is it's contribution to the war.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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06-29-2005, 12:38 PM
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#21 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,004
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by plan_D The P-51 was an easy plane to handle though, it was largely forgiving for the many rookie pilots that flew her. It took the fight to Germany, it also must have had something going for it because the Soviet Union used weight in numbers as well but their numbers were much-much higher.
The P-51 was also easy to build and maintain. So, personally the performance of plane as a dogfighter is over-rated. The plane itself is not nor is it's contribution to the war. | Agreed! A fair pilot became a good pilot in a -51. To fly a P-38 you had to be a good pilot!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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06-29-2005, 01:52 PM
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#22 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 714
| I assume everyone has already seen the Tactical Comparison Between the 109G/K and Mk. XIV. http://www.spitfireperformance.com/109gtacvspit14.html
The Mk XIV isn't a Mustang but there's some good useful information in there.
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06-29-2005, 02:57 PM
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#24 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country:  | I think that is what I had been saying earlier in this post. The P-51 was not the greatest dog fighter but she possibly made the biggest impact of the Allied fighters (post BoB fighters) of the war. She took the fight to the Germans were most fighters would have to sit back and wait for a chance.
I agree with flyboy the best allied fighters were the P-47 and the P-38.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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06-29-2005, 02:59 PM
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#25 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country:  | Quote: |
I agree with flyboy the best allied fighters were the P-47 and the P-38.
| Ill agree to that too.
__________________  with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
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06-29-2005, 03:11 PM
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#26 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 113
| I would agree with Flyboy that the P-38 Lighting and P-47 Thunderbolt were the best USAAF fighters.
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06-29-2005, 03:14 PM
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#27 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,579
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by DAVIDICUS | Oh no, not those British tests again...
Remember, the British hardly dared to fly the plane.
Consequently, British tests with the 109 are worthless...
__________________  We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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06-29-2005, 03:15 PM
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#28 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | Agreed and the Spitfire ofcourse fall into the best catagories of allied.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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06-29-2005, 03:24 PM
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#29 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,579
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by plan_D The P-51 was an easy plane to handle though, it was largely forgiving for the many rookie pilots that flew her. It took the fight to Germany, it also must have had something going for it because the Soviet Union used weight in numbers as well but their numbers were much-much higher.
The P-51 was also easy to build and maintain. So, personally the performance of plane as a dogfighter is over-rated. The plane itself is not nor is it's contribution to the war. | The P-51 was explained by its pilots as a pilots airplane, BUT, get into a stall with it "And your in deeeeep trouble !". The P-51's stalls were some of the most vicious of any fighter in WW2. (In the P-51's pilot's flight manual this is highly warned about)
The 109 on the other hand had a VERY forgiving stall, and it took 'much' longer to reach the stalling point aswell.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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06-29-2005, 03:26 PM
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#30 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,579
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Agreed and the Spitfire ofcourse fall into the best catagories of allied. | There's no doubt that the 109's best rival was the Spit, and that they were very equal in every aspect of flight.
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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