Italian Airforce Vs Japan

[cheddar cheese]

SM.79's with torps, escorted by G.55's with torps...DOWN boy...

[FLYBOYJ]

DOUBLE SH*T!

[plan_D]

I still don't know what makes you so sure the Re-2000 could out-turn a A6M - remember the Reisen was a nimble aircraft at low speeds. It could turn on a six pence!

[Cojimar 1945]

Italy does not seem to have greatly helped the axis cause in the war but some of their planes were apparently fairly good.

[Jank]

Fairly good?

The Series 5 fighters (Macchi Mc-205, Fiat G.55, Reggiane Re-2005) all saw combat (in pitifully small numbers) before Italy, as an Axis country, left the battlefield. At that point in time, September of 1943, the 5 Series fighters were among the very best air superiority fighters in existence for any country.

Italy's contributions were hampered not by design but by production.

Fiat G.55

[the lancaster kicks ass]

oh boy, not the series 5 debate again...... let's just say that in such small numbers they'd have done nothing to the Japs so they become all but irrelivant.........

[Jabberwocky]

Don't be too quick to dismiss the Japanese fighters.

While the Zero and Oscar may of been outclassed by mid-1943 (generally due to the intorduction of the F6F), there are a slew of excellent Japanese combat aircraft that were introduced in 1943 and 1944, if only produced in limited numbers.

Ki-44,
Ki-84,
Ki-100,
Ki-61-II,

J2M,
N1K2-J.

all of these would of been a handful for any opponent.

While generally 15-20mph slower than the '5 series' fighters, the later war Japanese fighters have a few advantages in the flight envelope over their hypothetical Italian opponents:

Better powerloading: the J2M, N1K2 and Ki-84 all have engines in the 1850-1,900 hp class and lower loaded weights than their opponents. This would tend to give them an advantage in turn time and rate of climb. The Ki-100 had a turbosupercharger, giving it an excellent ceiling and better speed at high altitude.

Better wingloading. The Ki-84 and N1K2-J both had larger wings than those of their opponents, combined with special combat flaps (automatic in the N1K2-Js case). This tends to mean smaller turn radii for the Japanese fighters. The J2M and Ki-44, on the other hand, had quite a small wings, and were built as Fw-190 analouges.


I don't think this would be a one sided battle, even for the G.55 et al. In fact, I'd actually tend to favour the Japanese air forces (IJN and IJA) over the Reggia Aeronautica, if only in terms of equipment.

[Chocks away!]

I agree with Jabberwocky about the underrated japanese equipment, particularly concerning the ki-61,ki-84,ki-100, N1k2, as these gave the americans a hard time, and I have never read anything that hints at any Italian fighter giving the USAAF a hard time.

This also gives credit to the Japanese fighter pilots, which undoubtedly were characterized by much more dedication and fanaticism than their italian counterparts.
The Italians never became fascinated with the whole concept of war, the propaganda of their fascist government was thus to prove innefective, and the result was a poorly motivated army, that won no major victories, and which's only claim to fame was involving the Germans in a lengthy campaign against Greece , when the supposedly superior italian army couldn't do the job, ultimately delaying operation Barbarossa.

I doubt the Regia Aeronautica wasn't also representative of this incompetence.

[Nicodemus]

In 1943 all the Japanese had were Zeros, Ki-61 Tony's, Ki-43 Oscars and Ki-44 Tojos. IMHO these were all outclassed by the Italian Macchi fighters. By late war the Japanese did have better fighter aircraft, but of course Italian aviation industry never got the chance to put up anything against it. Re.2005 and G.55 were very capable just like the Ki-84 and Ki-100.

As for torpedo bombers, the SM.79 Sparviero was clearly better than the 'flying torch' G4M Betty, and it looks better too . The Japs had D3A dive-bombers, which had considerably more success than the bulky Italian Breda Ba.65 and Ba.88s, but this was only in the early war-period.

It would really depend on when they would meet each other.

[Jank]

Later war Japanese fighters also were the product of an evolutionary process that did not come to a halt in 1943. That's why it's important to compare fighters at the point in time that Italy's programs stopped. Why compare 1945 rice rockets to the stallions of 1943?

[red admiral]

and I have never read anything that hints at any Italian fighter giving the USAAF a hard time.

P-38s and P-40s getting trashed in MTO by C.202s and C.205s?

[Jank]

[Jabberwocky]

Originally Posted by Jank

Later war Japanese fighters also were the product of an evolutionary process that did not come to a halt in 1943. That's why it's important to compare fighters at the point in time that Italy's programs stopped. Why compare 1945 rice rockets to the stallions of 1943?

Because those 'rice rockets' began operating in squadron service in:

December 1942: Ki-44-II
April 1943: Ki-61-I
November 1943: Ki-84
December 1943: J2M3
January 1944: Ki-61-II
December 1944: N1K2-J
March 1945: Ki-100

Given a spread of about just a few more months, the everything up to the J2M3 is a valid opponent for the 5 series fighters. Later Japanese birds wouldn't necessarily be strict contemporaries, but neither were the Spitfire V and MC 205 ect, yet they were still fighting each other over Italy in mid to late 1943.

[Jank]

Yes, the following all entered service after Italy capitulated:

November 1943: Ki-84
December 1943: J2M3
January 1944: Ki-61-II
December 1944: N1K2-J
March 1945: Ki-100

[Chocks away!]

So this thread shouldn't actually be ''Italian airforce vs Japanese airforce'' but ''Did the Japs have aircraft as good as the Fiat G 55 in 1943''? There's more to it than that if you're gonna compare the two airforces.