LaGG-3 on Japan Air Force.

[Mitya]

Actually the question consists in the following. And there is a report either what else or the information on how Japanese have estimated trophy LaGG-3.

[Micdrow]

Originally Posted by Mitya

Actually the question consists in the following. And there is a report either what else or the information on how Japanese have estimated trophy LaGG-3.

There are no reports that I know of, does not mean they do not exist. Im thinking that the aircraft was captured after VE-Day when the Russians helped come to the aid of the chinese towards the very end of WWII. Finding info on this subjects tends to be very hard especially in english. Ive only seen one article on the subject but cant read it do to it being in Russian and there for not exactly sure if it talks about the subject 100%. I do know that is shows a few russian troops capturing japanese aircraft.

[Mitya]

Originally Posted by Micdrow

There are no reports that I know of, does not mean they do not exist. Im thinking that the aircraft was captured after VE-Day when the Russians helped come to the aid of the chinese towards the very end of WWII. Finding info on this subjects tends to be very hard especially in english. Ive only seen one article on the subject but cant read it do to it being in Russian and there for not exactly sure if it talks about the subject 100%. I do know that is shows a few russian troops capturing japanese aircraft.

Yes is not present. Business was so.
In the spring of 1942 one fighter have stolen from Transbaikalia in supervised then Japanese Manchuria. The plane has made an emergency landing on a field with the removedchassis. After repair Japanese have decided to test LaGG-3. Flights have begun from September, 29. Definition of the basic characteristics of the machine was carried out{was spent} and educational fights with the Japanese fighters were conducted. The further destiny of this plane is unknown...

Вот...

[Micdrow]

Very interesting Mitya and thanks for the date. Sounds like the Japanese had the aircraft in there postion alot longer then I thought.

You wouldnt by chance know where I could find some documention on japanese aircraft captured and tested by Russia or any other country for WWII would you?

Thanks in advance.

[Mitya]

Originally Posted by Micdrow

Very interesting Mitya and thanks for the date. Sounds like the Japanese had the aircraft in there postion alot longer then I thought.

You wouldnt by chance know where I could find some documention on japanese aircraft captured and tested by Russia or any other country for WWII would you?

Thanks in advance.

Finns used seized LaGG-3. Me interests, as Japanese have estimated this type of the plane... At one our forum has flown that Japanese have not badly estimated him enough. The truth it whether or not... In what business. In fact they even spent comparative tests with the aircraft. What results too I do not know...

[Mangrove]

Originally Posted by Mitya

Finns used seized LaGG-3.

Le.Lv.32 / HLe.Lv.12 used LaGGs ("LG-1, "LG-2" and "LG-3") in 1943 - 1944. The squadron had usually one LaGG per any given time and they were used to intercept Soviet Petljakovs. [1] The only kill with these captured planes was a Soviet LaGG-3!

Captain Pekka Kokko test flew the LG-3 on 8th February 1943. M-105 PF 3-1119, W-105 SWP. Weight 3240 kg (Fuel = 315, Guns = 71 + 69 kg). Rate of Climb was 15,6 m/s (radiator open) on 0-1000 m. Maximum speed at surface was 463 km/h. [2]

[1] Lentorykmentti 1:n toimintakertomus ajalta 1.5.1942 - 31.7.1944. SPK 25739 (F124/914). Finnish National Archive, Sörnäinen.

[2] Report on the test flight of LG-3. 1943. Valtion Lentokonetehdas.

[Grampa]

The little information I have is from a book an illustraited guide to Allied Fighter of World War II, copyright 1981 Salamander Books Ltd and written by Bill Gunston. In it is a same picture and it's written that this LaGG-3 whas tested in Harbin after it whent to hands of the japanese forces when it landed in a plowed field in Manchuriet by an Russian deserter 1942. The japanese wherent impressed of the performance of this plane.

[Mitya]

Originally Posted by Mangrove

Le.Lv.32 / HLe.Lv.12 used LaGGs ("LG-1, "LG-2" and "LG-3") in 1943 - 1944. The squadron had usually one LaGG per any given time and they were used to intercept Soviet Petljakovs. [1] The only kill with these captured planes was a Soviet LaGG-3!

Captain Pekka Kokko test flew the LG-3 on 8th February 1943. M-105 PF 3-1119, W-105 SWP. Weight 3240 kg (Fuel = 315, Guns = 71 + 69 kg). Rate of Climb was 15,6 m/s (radiator open) on 0-1000 m. Maximum speed at surface was 463 km/h. [2]

[1] Lentorykmentti 1:n toimintakertomus ajalta 1.5.1942 - 31.7.1944. SPK 25739 (F124/914). Finnish National Archive, Sörnäinen.

[2] Report on the test flight of LG-3. 1943. Valtion Lentokonetehdas.

I know it. Also I ask, and how Japanese of ihim estimated?

[Mitya]

Originally Posted by Grampa

The little information I have is from a book an illustraited guide to Allied Fighter of World War II, copyright 1981 Salamander Books Ltd and written by Bill Gunston. In it is a same picture and it's written that this LaGG-3 whas tested in Harbin after it whent to hands of the japanese forces when it landed in a plowed field in Manchuriet by an Russian deserter 1942. The japanese wherent impressed of the performance of this plane.

And is detailed that is not present?

[Mitya]

Вот еще.

[Mangrove]

Originally Posted by Mitya

I know it. Also I ask, and how Japanese of ihim estimated?

What? Please, explain again. You have seen the Finnish report before or you knew that Finns have LaGG-3s?

[HoHun]

Hi Mangrove,

>Captain Pekka Kokko test flew the LG-3 on 8th February 1943. M-105 PF 3-1119, W-105 SWP. Weight 3240 kg (Fuel = 315, Guns = 71 + 69 kg). Rate of Climb was 15,6 m/s (radiator open) on 0-1000 m. Maximum speed at surface was 463 km/h. [2]

Hm, is the weight correct? I only ask because I read somewhere that the M-105PF engined variant was lightened, so I'd like to be sure there is no typo in the data

The maximum speed appears comparatively slow, too - according to some Russian data, the LaGG-3 with the less powerful M-105P engine made 475 km/h @ sea level.

(Not that this would be the only captured aircraft to under-perform ...)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Mitya]

Originally Posted by Mangrove

What? Please, explain again. You have seen the Finnish report before or you knew that Finns have LaGG-3s?

You not quick-witted what... I speak, that about Finns I know. To you also photos even. Me interests as Japanese have estimated LaGG-3. Besides to them MP-20 (SHVAK), and VYA-23 has got LaGG, having not.
To you Finns.
You about Japanese better that would find.

[Mangrove]

Originally Posted by HoHun

Hm, is the weight correct? I only ask because I read somewhere that the M-105PF engined variant was lightened, so I'd like to be sure there is no typo in the data

Hello Henning!

"LG-3" was weightened before the test and following values were marked down.

"Fuselage, engine and basic equipment": 2511 kg
"Pilot and his gear": 95 kg
"Fuel 450 L, Coolant and Oil": 480 kg
"12,7mm + 20mm + Radio": 85 kg
"Ammunition. 200x12,7mm + 140x20mm": 69 kg

This gives us 3240 kg.

Originally Posted by HoHun

The maximum speed appears comparatively slow, too - according to some Russian data, the LaGG-3 with the less powerful M-105P engine made 475 km/h @ sea level.

Are you sure the Soviets tested their planes with full load and such? I'm asking this because sometimes the test are flown without realistic loads.

The differences at the speeds can be explained in two ways.:

1) The Finns didn't use their engines at maximum manifold pressure for the test because it would damage the engine. Report says the (corrected) pressure used was 1030 mm Hg.

2) The Soviets didn't use as much equipment at their planes as the Finns did. Finns always tested their planes at Full Combat Load.

Cheers

Martti

[HoHun]

Hi Martti,

>"LG-3" was weightened before the test and following values were marked down.

Thanks! :-) That looks like a good breakdown ... and I have also calculated back the weight from some Russian charts that use a weight-based index, and it seems that they used a similar weight for the LaGG-3, too.

>Are you sure the Soviets tested their planes with full load and such? I'm asking this because sometimes the test are flown without realistic loads.

I know little about the actual Soviet tests ... if they'd have used a different reference weight, I might have missed that detail. The RAF sometimes used something like 96% of the actual take-off weight for speed tests, but that makes only a minor difference.

>Report says the (corrected) pressure used was 1030 mm Hg.

Ah, great that the Finns documented their tests in detail! :-) The engine chart I have indicates 1.43 ata = 1052 mm Hg. Minor difference, but it might yield 5 km/h speed difference at sea level. (Were the rpm stated, too? My engine chart is for 2700 rpm.)

Another question: Were the speed tests was flown with radiator flaps open, too? That might make quite a pronounced difference for top speed values, of course.

I have to admit that I couldn't find out the propeller diameter of the LaGG-3 accurately yet. From measuring a threeview, I assume it's 2.95 m, but if you have a different figure, that would be most welcome, too :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)