LUFTWAFFE EXPERTEN Claims vs. Kills

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I dont think it will ever be possible to really piece it all together and verify each claim, for any nation as a matter of fact.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and it'll certainly only get harder as time goes on.............

[Chingachgook]

I was doing a bit of cross ref on Channel Front 1941...

22 June 1941, JG 2 and JG 26 claim 9 Spits shot down and 2 Blenheims.
RAF losses for the day, 2 Spits.

7 July, 1941 JG 26 claims five Spits.
RAF losses for the day, 1 Spit.

19 July, 1941 JG 2 and JG 26 claim 3 Spits and 1 Sterling.
RAF losses for the day, 2 Spits (one to flak).

27 Aug, 1941 JG 26 claims 8 Spits - AND GETS IT RIGHT!
RAF losses for the day, 7-8 Spits. (RAF claims 6 109s)

29 Aug, 1941 JG 2 abd JG 27 claim 9 Spits.
RAF losses for the day, 0.

27 Sep, 1941 JG 2 and JG 26 claim 17 Spits and 1 Blenheim
RAF losses for the day, 8 Spits, 1 Hurricane (claim 14 109s)

13 Oct, 1941 JG 2 and JG 26 claim 20(!) Spits and 2 Blenheims.
RAF losses for the day, 2 Spits, one Blenheim (claim 5 109s).

[the lancaster kicks ass]

that just highlights the problem, but it was a problem for all combatants............

[Tim]

Please pardon my ignorance - if I understand, you are saying that the basic documentation to reconcile Luftwaffe claims and British losses is available in the German Freiburg and British Public Records Office archives. Are you also saying that nobody to your knowledge has published an honest attempt at correlating these, and if I'm that interested I'm going to have to do it myself?

Does the same apply to Luftwaffe claims of USAAF shootdowns?

AFAIK the official records of Soviet losses have still not been released.

I'm also trying to understand the implications of your comment "that by November 44 German fighter pilots were not given total credits for the downing of Allied a/c". Do you mean that the OKL claims verification system had broken down to such an extent by then that these claims were never officially confirmed, and claims arising from this period are potentially suspect?

Thanks, Tim

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Tim

I'm also trying to understand the implications of your comment "that by November 44 German fighter pilots were not given total credits for the downing of Allied a/c". Do you mean that the OKL claims verification system had broken down to such an extent by then that these claims were never officially confirmed, and claims arising from this period are potentially suspect?

Thanks, Tim

The problem is that toward the end of the war. The OKL stopped taking officail claims and there was no one recording them. It was just a fight to survive situation.

[Tim]

So claims made after Nov 1944 are not officially confirmed, and we just have to take the claimant's word of honour?

Was anyone assuring the reliabililty of these claims - e.g. Gruppe commander, Staffel commander, etc., or was the situation so chaotic by then that even this was not possible?

Is this where allegations that the top scoring aces claims were inflated come from?

[Erich]

unless copied for posterity sake by the JG or NJG official historian, then yes