The Luftwaffe if Goering Died in WW1... - Aircraft of World War II

lesofprimus · 11-18-2007, 05:04 PM

So, what would the Luftwaffe have been like if Hermann Goering died during World War 1??? Would things have worked out differently???

syscom3 · 11-18-2007, 05:49 PM

Probably not much would be different.

Hitler wanted lackeys in high places and micro manage where he wanted too.

pbfoot · 11-18-2007, 06:56 PM

Udet had a better grip on things , he wanted change and believe he was trying to get a strategic component to the LW

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-18-2007, 07:16 PM

If Udet had been in charge I think the Luftwaffe would have been better. There might not have been the stupid requirements such as the He 177 having to be Dive Bomber Capable.

Udet also I believe might have gotten a Strategic Heavy Bomber program going sooner and maybe the Jets would have gone into service sooner.

Overall I dont think the conclusion would have changed. The Luftwaffe would not have been able to fight off all the allies and neither could the ground forces.

What would really interest me would be how the Battle of Britain would have played out. Any ideas?

FLYBOYJ · 11-18-2007, 07:21 PM

How about Walther Wever fulfilling the role that Goering took had he not died in 1936?

pbfoot · 11-18-2007, 07:34 PM

Forgot about Wever

FLYBOYJ · 11-18-2007, 07:40 PM

Say Wever lived and fulfilled Goering's role the Luftwaffe might of had long range 4 engine bombers in quantity.

Micdrow · 11-18-2007, 07:41 PM

Interesting question, Im not sure how to answer that one. Herman Goring had some good ideas and some bad ones. I think that at the wars end he was hooked on morophine which could have clouded his judgement due to an accident prior to the war if I remember right.

Udet commited suicide during the war which shows that he was as unstable as the rest but he did have some good idea's also.

In the end I dont think either one would change the out come of the war but it would be interesting of you could some how play out both scenery's without the loss of life.

The Basket · 11-18-2007, 08:09 PM

Goering was Hitlers successor and in charge of economics

He had unlimited political and financial power to build up the Luftwaffe.

No other man could have done that and certainly no viable alternative could have had the driving force Goring had.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-18-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Basket

Goering was Hitlers successor and in charge of economics

No actually he was not. He sent a letter to Hitler proposing himself as the successor and Hitler found this to be disloyal.

On April 25, 1945 Hitler had Goering arrested by Bernhard Frank. Hitler had Goering expelled from the Nazi Party and removed him from all offices and titles that he held.

Hitler even gave orders to have Goering wife and daughter killed but Frank regected the order and they all retreated to a castle.

On April 26, 1945 Hitler even officially removed him as Head of the Luftwaffe.

Udet · 11-18-2007, 08:53 PM

Nice to play with thoughts and ideas in this regard...

Had Göring died before WW2 chances are things could have fared somewhat better for the Luftwaffe. How come? Well, someone with a different personality and character could have held the position Göring did for WW2. I would not dare calling Göring "Hitler´s Lackey"...it gets boring when we are told it was only in Nazy Germany where the leader was surrounded by lackeys whose primary function was to protect and boost the ego of a lunatic erratic leader.

Göring was a very clever man, but his early succeses as head of the Luftwaffe lead him astray to a life of pleasure that made him lose contact with reality. Not that he would not issue opinions contradicting Hitler´s ideas, rather he became to lazy and unattached he did not seem to care all that much about anything.

What about General Wolfram von Richtofen? Repeat, what if General Wolfram von Richtofen had been at the leadership of the Luftwaffe from the outset?

In my view he is the epitome, the quintessential air force commander. Not only was von Richtofen a man with an intelligence out of the ordinary: he was utterly thorough when commanding his aerial force at the fronts. He always had a completely clear image of what was going in the front areas where he was operating. General Richtofen did not believe in "nasty surprises"; he was always one step ahead surprises; his forces would always perform thorough screenings of the enemy´s move, and not just that, he himself would fly his Fiesseler Torch plane in the area of operations.

I do not think any other top ranking officer of either RAF or USAAF can come close to match the style of this man.

He was the very first high ranking official that pointed out supplying the cut off 6th Army at Stalingrad from the air belonged in the realm of fantasy.

Also, he was one of the very first officials in the armed forces to send Berlin prompt and timely reports on the assembly of Red Army forces northwest of Stalingrad during October/November 1942...the "black clouds" in the horizon that in the end would storm the sectors guarded by ill-equipped Romanians and other axis minors having the 6th Army trapped as a result.

It should be interesting to know that the very first German armed forces which engaged and attacked the Red Army forces assemblying for the winter offensive which would encircle the 6th Army were precisely the Stukas of von Richtofen. -In one of those incidents, the Stukas of Richtofen nearly killed political agitator and supreme war criminal Nikita Krushchev who was paying a visit to the tank forces assembly in the area-.

Had his reports and warnings been accepted by Hitler chances are Stalingrad would have had a very different end.

It would have been interesting to see Richtofen commanding the Luftwaffe during 1944 against the onslaught of the USAAF. From this scenario i´d expect at minimum a much wiser use of Luftwaffe resources. Too bad he was already retired due to health issues during 1944.

syscom3 · 11-18-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Udet

....
I do not think any other top ranking officer of either RAF or USAAF can come close to match the style of this man.
...1944.

Arnold was among the greatest generals of the air war. Chenault and Kenny were also two extremely capable generals that operated in the frame of reference that youre reffering too.

FLYBOYJ · 11-18-2007, 09:30 PM

Udet, I agree 100% about Richthofen.

freebird · 11-18-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

If Udet had been in charge I think the Luftwaffe would have been better. There might not have been the stupid requirements such as the He 177 having to be Dive Bomber Capable.

Udet also I believe might have gotten a Strategic Heavy Bomber program going sooner and maybe the Jets would have gone into service sooner.

Overall I dont think the conclusion would have changed. The Luftwaffe would not have been able to fight off all the allies and neither could the ground forces.

What would really interest me would be how the Battle of Britain would have played out. Any ideas?

The Battle of Britain was a whole new type of war that had never occured before. Goering was not the "goat" on this battle that many make him out to be. Remember that the key air fleet "Luftflotte 2" (HQ Brussels) was commanded by Kesselring, one of the most capable LW generals. The order to begin bombing London was given by Hitler himself, (Sept 7) the beginning of the "Blitz" which ended any chance of the Germans knocking out the SE British airfields (key to any successful attempt at Sealion)

However, the Germans had hoped that the devastation in London would force the British to negotiate peace. This was not as unreasonable as it sounds today, as the Germans had just defeated the French nation, who collapsed astoundingly quickly .

The Basket · 11-19-2007, 04:32 AM

oops...Goering was Hitlers intended successor...with Hess third. I will find the Hitler decree when I finish work.

Slip of the keyboard.

11-18-2007, 05:04 PM	#1
lesofprimus Minister of Whoopass Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi Posts: 17,503	The Luftwaffe if Goering Died in WW1... So, what would the Luftwaffe have been like if Hermann Goering died during World War 1??? Would things have worked out differently??? __________________ My IL2 Video Tribute to My Grandfather: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk

11-18-2007, 05:49 PM	#2
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,283	Probably not much would be different. Hitler wanted lackeys in high places and micro manage where he wanted too. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

11-18-2007, 07:16 PM	#4
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,152	If Udet had been in charge I think the Luftwaffe would have been better. There might not have been the stupid requirements such as the He 177 having to be Dive Bomber Capable. Udet also I believe might have gotten a Strategic Heavy Bomber program going sooner and maybe the Jets would have gone into service sooner. Overall I dont think the conclusion would have changed. The Luftwaffe would not have been able to fight off all the allies and neither could the ground forces. What would really interest me would be how the Battle of Britain would have played out. Any ideas? __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

11-18-2007, 07:21 PM	#5
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,051	How about Walther Wever fulfilling the role that Goering took had he not died in 1936? __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

11-18-2007, 07:40 PM	#7
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,051	Say Wever lived and fulfilled Goering's role the Luftwaffe might of had long range 4 engine bombers in quantity. __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

11-18-2007, 06:56 PM	#3
pbfoot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: niagara falls Posts: 5,586	Udet had a better grip on things , he wanted change and believe he was trying to get a strategic component to the LW

11-18-2007, 07:34 PM	#6
pbfoot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: niagara falls Posts: 5,586	Forgot about Wever

11-18-2007, 07:41 PM	#8
Micdrow “Archive” Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 4,852	Interesting question, Im not sure how to answer that one. Herman Goring had some good ideas and some bad ones. I think that at the wars end he was hooked on morophine which could have clouded his judgement due to an accident prior to the war if I remember right. Udet commited suicide during the war which shows that he was as unstable as the rest but he did have some good idea's also. In the end I dont think either one would change the out come of the war but it would be interesting of you could some how play out both scenery's without the loss of life. __________________ "Valor does not mean Hero."

11-18-2007, 08:09 PM	#9
The Basket Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 584	Goering was Hitlers successor and in charge of economics He had unlimited political and financial power to build up the Luftwaffe. No other man could have done that and certainly no viable alternative could have had the driving force Goring had.

11-18-2007, 08:53 PM	#11
Udet Banned Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,258	Nice to play with thoughts and ideas in this regard... Had Göring died before WW2 chances are things could have fared somewhat better for the Luftwaffe. How come? Well, someone with a different personality and character could have held the position Göring did for WW2. I would not dare calling Göring "Hitler´s Lackey"...it gets boring when we are told it was only in Nazy Germany where the leader was surrounded by lackeys whose primary function was to protect and boost the ego of a lunatic erratic leader. Göring was a very clever man, but his early succeses as head of the Luftwaffe lead him astray to a life of pleasure that made him lose contact with reality. Not that he would not issue opinions contradicting Hitler´s ideas, rather he became to lazy and unattached he did not seem to care all that much about anything. What about General Wolfram von Richtofen? Repeat, what if General Wolfram von Richtofen had been at the leadership of the Luftwaffe from the outset? In my view he is the epitome, the quintessential air force commander. Not only was von Richtofen a man with an intelligence out of the ordinary: he was utterly thorough when commanding his aerial force at the fronts. He always had a completely clear image of what was going in the front areas where he was operating. General Richtofen did not believe in "nasty surprises"; he was always one step ahead surprises; his forces would always perform thorough screenings of the enemy´s move, and not just that, he himself would fly his Fiesseler Torch plane in the area of operations. I do not think any other top ranking officer of either RAF or USAAF can come close to match the style of this man. He was the very first high ranking official that pointed out supplying the cut off 6th Army at Stalingrad from the air belonged in the realm of fantasy. Also, he was one of the very first officials in the armed forces to send Berlin prompt and timely reports on the assembly of Red Army forces northwest of Stalingrad during October/November 1942...the "black clouds" in the horizon that in the end would storm the sectors guarded by ill-equipped Romanians and other axis minors having the 6th Army trapped as a result. It should be interesting to know that the very first German armed forces which engaged and attacked the Red Army forces assemblying for the winter offensive which would encircle the 6th Army were precisely the Stukas of von Richtofen. -In one of those incidents, the Stukas of Richtofen nearly killed political agitator and supreme war criminal Nikita Krushchev who was paying a visit to the tank forces assembly in the area-. Had his reports and warnings been accepted by Hitler chances are Stalingrad would have had a very different end. It would have been interesting to see Richtofen commanding the Luftwaffe during 1944 against the onslaught of the USAAF. From this scenario i´d expect at minimum a much wiser use of Luftwaffe resources. Too bad he was already retired due to health issues during 1944. Last edited by Udet; 11-18-2007 at 09:04 PM.

11-18-2007, 09:30 PM	#13
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,051	Udet, I agree 100% about Richthofen. __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

11-19-2007, 04:32 AM	#15
The Basket Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 584	oops...Goering was Hitlers intended successor...with Hess third. I will find the Hitler decree when I finish work. Slip of the keyboard.

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