Luftwaffe Secret Projects 1939-1945

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Agreed.

[CharlesBronson]

Most of the trips performed by the Ju-390 ( and also some ju-290) was to Japan, flying all across enemy territory.

The sucesor of the 290/390 should be the junkers EF-100 heavy long range tranports,recon plane capable of carry 1 Panzer Mark IV, between others heavy loads.



The aircraft was to be of all-metal construction, with the fuselage having a "double-circle" cross-section. A loading ramp was located in the rear lower fuselage, such as the later Ju 252 and Ju 352 used. The wings were located low on the fuselage, and had six Jumo 223 Diesel 24-cylinder engines mounted on the wing leading edge.

[FLYBOYJ]

It Looks like a Lockheed "Connie" on steroids - the plane that is!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Indeed she would have been a beuatiful aircraft.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

she looks it, i can't help but wonder how much it would weigh though......

[CharlesBronson]

Another Heavy transport projekt.

Focke-Wulf 195.



Also known as the Focke-Wulf Fw 249, this was not an official RLM designation. It was designed to take advantage of the Jumo 222 engines (24 cylinder - 2500 horsepower), which were in development at that time. The wings were placed low on the fuselage, and had eight Jumo 222 engines mounted on the wing leading edge. A twin fin and rudder configuration was chosen for the control unit. A tricycle landing gear arrangement was designed, so that a rear loading ramp could be used. A total of 52 tons of equipment, or 400 fully equipped troops could be loaded. The Fw Projekt 195 was to be manned by a seven or eight man crew.
The Jumo 222 engines never reached production status, due to their very complex construction. The few that were ever built and tested exhibited many teething problems. This engine was chosen for the Bomber-B program (the competitors for this contract issued in 1939 were the Arado E.340, Dornier 317, Focke-Wulf 191, Junkers 28.

[DaveB.inVa]

What information do you have on the Ju-390 or 290 flying to Japan? What routes were taken, takeoff and landing locations and such. Ive been curious as to the nature of these trips for a while but have never been able to find any information on them.

[CharlesBronson]

In the early Spring of 1944, the first examples of the improved Ju 290A-5 began to supplement the [earlier models] in FAGr 5 service, and another staffel, 4./FAGr 5 was formed...shortly after the formation of 4./FAGr 5, three aircraft were recalled to Finsterwalde, they had been completely striped of armour and armament, fitted with two additional 550 Imp. Gal. fuel tanks to increase total fuel to 5,235 Imp. Gal. From Odessa and Mielec, the aircraft were flown non-stop to Manchuria with special cargoes, refueling and returning to Mielec with strategic materials.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I do not have anything like flight plans or anything like that but supposadly Ju-290s flew to China:

According to historian Horst Zoeller, a postwar German newspaper article in the 'Fifties reported that three Ju 290 aircraft were converted to civilian airframes with extra fuel capacity and these were transferred to Deutsche Lufthansa (DLH) during the war. These aircraft flew from Bulgaria to Yin-ch'uan also known as Ninghsia, which is 540nm west of Beijing.


Junkers Ju 290Other airframes were also civilianised during the war to fly discreet missions to Barcelona. Some of the last missions to Barcelona were at the directions of Grand Admiral Karl Donitz to evacuate records of U-boat movements into hiding before the collapse of Nazi Germany. One civilianised Ju 290 aicraft flew a number of Nazi officers from Prague to Barcelona in late April 1945. It's passengers may have included SS Lt General Hans Kammler who disappeared from Prague about the same time. Kammler was the head of the V-2 rocket project and other secret technologies. There is also a possibility that the mission was sanctioned by the OSS as a part of Operation Paperclip (to recruit Nazi scientists for USA) and Operation Sunrise (the secret surrender of Nazi Germany to US forces)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_290

[vanir]

Shame I missed out on the MiG-15/Ta 183 discussion. Not wanted to restart any redundant debates, I had read and heard several comments made by people throughout the post war aviation industry who claimed the US got most of the technical materiel of Germany and the Soviets got their hands on some prototypes. They say nobody thought much of the swept wing but the Soviets basically rebuilt some German designs and GBritain gave them engines, the MiG-15 was the end result.

They said USAF had been disappointed with the performance of the F86 compared to the MiG (which could get supersonic in a dive), so knowing what they knew about the Russians they sat down and studied the Me262, borrowing its swept wings. This was supposedly how the familiar Sabrejet of the Korean War was born.
They said the USAF had no idea what swept wings might do for them, but once on the plane it flew better and solved some problems they'd been having, although the MiG was still superior.

This is pretty typical of any common source I look this stuff up in.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by vanir

They said USAF had been disappointed with the performance of the F86 compared to the MiG (which could get supersonic in a dive).

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! You go supersonic in a Mig-15, you're probably going to die! This was confirmed when Chuck Yeager and Tom Collins flew the Mig-15 that a North Korean defector flew to Japan in 1953. The North Korean defector (his name excapes me right now) stated in a TV interview that the Mig-15 was not to be flown supersonic. He eventually got to tell this to Yeager and Collins (who already attempted to fly the Mig-15 beyond mach 1) and probably saved their lives. Yeager almost killed himself attempting to go mach 1 in the Mig-15 on at least one occasion.

I actually helped assemble a Mig-15 UTI and also maintained a Chinese Mig-15, both located at Mojave Ca. I had the opportunity to fly the Mig-15 UTI. Even though it was the trainer version, it's performance wasn't that far off from the traditional single seat version, so I was told by the fellow who owned the Chinese version. Prior to the flight the aircraft's owner and I had a 10 minute briefing where we discussed maneuvers and speeds. What was emphasized the most was avoiding high mach numbers .90-.96 when coming out of loops. The aircraft would shudder, shake and snake. The guy who owned this plane told me he mistakenly got it close to mach .96 and the rear canopy cracked and almost blew off!

Originally Posted by vanir

although the MiG was still superior.

In some cases yes, in most cases no! The F-86 was more sturdy, a better gun platfom (although at this point a heavier caliber gun was required) and could out maneuver the Mig at certain altitudes (Especially the "F" model with the "6-3" L/E slat). The Mig was lighter and accerlated better because of this. As stated the MiG-15 COULD NOT fly mach 1, the F-86 could with ease and the prototype probably flew mach 1 for the first time a week before Yeager did in the X-1.

[Smokey]

Heres another Luftwaffe heavy transport design proposal:
http://www.swannysmodels.com/Zwilling.html


Junkers Ju-290Z Zwilling


Messerschmitt Me 328 parasite aircraft

With what little information I could obtain I learned the Ju 290Z was a proposal to further increase the range and lifting capabilities of the basic Ju 290 by joining two airframes with a common center wing. The idea was not new, and had been demonstrated in several other projects (most notably the He 111Z Glider Tug). The idea was generally sound, and more or less successful. But nothing had ever been attempted with aircraft this large before, and I can just imagine the massive stresses involved with the center wing, especially seeing as how the tails were left unconnected. Because of these reasons, the Zwilling was passed over in favor of the Ju 390, a six-engined stretched version of the 290 that was a bit less radical. Nothing came of either project.

http://www.swannysmodels.com/Zwilling.html

[FLYBOYJ]

Nice Models Smoke!

[the lancaster kicks ass]

that looks an amazing aircraft..........

[delcyros]

According to my informations, I can confirm that the MiG-15 was unable to reach Mach 1. If this happens, however, the result would be an unrecoverable, terminal dive. I suspect the airframe to desintegrate, earlier.
Maybe you mixed this up with the La-15?
That plane has a very thin, 45 degrees swept back wing, which allows the plane at least three times to reach or break Mach 1 in test flights.
While all in all better than the contender Mig plane, it did nor got the main contract but a considerable number has been produced anyway.
I cannot imagine, how the US designers would find the flight performances of the first XF-86 unstatisfieing compared to the Mig, since in this timeframe the project C (later Mig-15) was in the construction stage, I doubt that the US had any substantial knowledge about this plane prior to Korea.