Moral objections on warfare. - Aircraft of World War II

GT · 03-17-2005, 06:39 AM

14 Dec 1942, Kommandeur of 1/JG51 Heinrich Krafft was shot down by Russian AA guns at Bjeloi, and as beaten to death by Russian soldiers.

17 Dec 1943, Joachim Kirschner, IV/JG27, was hit during a dogfight with Spitfires over Croatia and bailed out, but he was captured by partisans and shot to death.

29 March 1944, Detlev Rohwer, Gruppenkommandeur II/JG 3 attacked some B-17s . His Bf 109 G-6 was hit by return fire from the bombers and he bellied near Ibbenburen and was strafed by P-38s and suffered severe wounds. He was hospitalized at Ibbenburen where he had a leg amputated. He died of his wounds on 30 March.

24 April 1944, Franz Schwaiger, Staffelkapitan 1./JG3 fought against US bomber formations and its escort. After scoring a P-51 his Bf 109G-5 ran out of fuel and he had to make a forced landing near Rain am Lech and P-51s strafed and killed him.

6 Sept 1944, Lt/Col. Quince L. Brown, 78th FG was attacking Vogelsland airfield and his a/c was seen hit by tracers and Brown baled out. He was seen to land safely in a field, 2 km west of Schleiden near the town of Weirmuehle and to run and hide in some long grass. He was shot in the back of the head at close range and killed by an SS officer and the officer informed the German authorities that the US pilot had tried to escape, but in 1946 a War Crimes court found him guilty of murder and ordered his execution.

30 March, 1945, Lt. Erich Schulte was killed in his parachute by enemy fighters after bailing out. The Me 262 was claimed (and later confirmed as destroyed) by 2/Lt. Leonard A. Kunz and Capt. Robert F. Sargent, 339th FG.

4 april 1945, Gruppenkommandeur III./JG7, Rudi Sinner bailed out of his Me 262 after being hit by P-51s and landed in a plowed field. Two P-51s from 339th FG strafed him during the time he was dragged about 20 meters by the parachute and when the P-51s circled around for another pass, Sinner ran for about 25 m and the P-51s then strafed his parachute. The Me 262 was destroyed by 1/Lt. Robert C. Croker and shared with Captain Kirke B. Everson, 339th FG.

17 April 1945, Col. Elwyn C. Righetti, 55th FG Group CO was hit by flak near Dresden and he bellied-in his P-51D after strafing an airfield. He was killed by a furious mob of German civilians.

28 April 1945, Lt. Ernst Rudolf Geldmacher, II./JG7 was shot down as he took of from Ruzne airfield and was later beaten to death by a enraged mob.

Fighter pilots and sometime bomber crews were killed and beaten by irate civilians or German military personnel. The reason was often personal loss or the general devastation and casualties resulting from air attack generated this intense hatred.

The last traces of moral objections to this manner of warfare had long ago been forgotten. The incidents should not be covered up and the sad story is that it happened on both sides. Even Capt. Richard Peterson, 357th FG admitted in an interview for Wings that he had made mince meat of an Bf 109 pilot who had flown from parachute to parachute, shooting at the bomber crews. - I just tore him up and that was the only time I did it, he said.

Regards
GT

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-17-2005, 03:06 PM

but to be honest some of those are acceptable really, i mean it is a war, the gentlemanly encounters of the Great War were, for the most part, gone, and especailly on the eastern front the rulebook was completely torn up..........

Nonskimmer · 03-17-2005, 03:42 PM

I wouldn't call it acceptable, lanc. To a certain degree it's understandable, but not exactly acceptable. We're only human yes, but we need to maintain certain lines of accountability, even in warfare.

cheddar cheese · 03-17-2005, 04:00 PM

Im with Nonskimmer here.

Nonskimmer · 03-17-2005, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheddar cheese

Im with Nonskimmer here.

Figuratively speaking, of course.

MichaelHenley · 03-17-2005, 07:31 PM

I agree with Nonskimmer too. The stuff that GT mentioned is as bad as what happenened ad Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

mosquitoman · 03-17-2005, 07:37 PM

Apparently a B-29 crewman who got shot down over Japan was caged in Tokyo Zoo as an exhibit, now that is degrading

DAVIDICUS · 03-17-2005, 07:44 PM

Michael,

I notice that you said,"The stuff that GT mentioned is as bad as what happenened ad Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq."

Huh? Exactly what "stuff" are you referring to?

GT · 03-18-2005, 12:24 AM

Yes, It is understandable and not many pilots did it, just because to most pilots there was no challenge to shoot and kill a helpless guy in a parachute.

I wonder what the Geneva convention says about it?

Regards
GT

KraziKanuK · 03-18-2005, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT

Yes, It is understandable and not many pilots did it, just because to most pilots there was no challenge to shoot and kill a helpless guy in a parachute.

I wonder what the Geneva convention says about it?

Regards
GT

During WW2 there was no rule about not shooting at aircrew in parachutes.

German civilians did nasty things to airmen shot down over Germany.

GT · 03-18-2005, 07:34 AM

That is also understandable, and the rage when an terrorflieger was captured
by civilians sometimes had that sad ending.

Regards
GT

KraziKanuK · 03-18-2005, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT

That is also understandable, and the rage when an terrorflieger was captured
by civilians sometimes had that sad ending.

Regards
GT

GT, my name sake was one of those terrorflieger who did not come home.

Not to say it did not happen but I don't recall the same happening to German aircrew shot down over GB during the Blitz.

cheddar cheese · 03-18-2005, 10:18 AM

An Italian one used a captured P-38 in American markings to take out B-17's when they were least expecting it. One of the Radio Operators then Radioed the Italian, telling him he'd been having an affair with his wife

This angried him and he tried to take down some of the B-17's, but was shot down by another P-38. Ironically, the B-17 Radio Operator attended the guys funeral.

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-18-2005, 12:22 PM

cheddar cheese · 03-18-2005, 03:51 PM

Hey, it worked for many weeks!

03-17-2005, 03:06 PM	#2
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	but to be honest some of those are acceptable really, i mean it is a war, the gentlemanly encounters of the Great War were, for the most part, gone, and especailly on the eastern front the rulebook was completely torn up.......... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

03-17-2005, 07:31 PM	#6
MichaelHenley Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Brisbane Posts: 507	I agree with Nonskimmer too. The stuff that GT mentioned is as bad as what happenened ad Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. __________________ I like traffic lights, I like traffic lights, I like traffic lights, that is what I said....

03-17-2005, 07:37 PM	#7
mosquitoman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Saffron Walden/Sheffield Posts: 2,991	Apparently a B-29 crewman who got shot down over Japan was caged in Tokyo Zoo as an exhibit, now that is degrading __________________ When you realise that the light at the end of the tunnel is actually an oncoming train, you know it's time to run for your life

03-17-2005, 07:44 PM	#8
DAVIDICUS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 880	Michael, I notice that you said,"The stuff that GT mentioned is as bad as what happenened ad Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq." Huh? Exactly what "stuff" are you referring to? __________________ . -=DAVIDICUS MAXIMUS=- .

03-18-2005, 12:22 PM	#14
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	__________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

03-17-2005, 03:42 PM	#3
Nonskimmer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 8,871	I wouldn't call it acceptable, lanc. To a certain degree it's understandable, but not exactly acceptable. We're only human yes, but we need to maintain certain lines of accountability, even in warfare.

03-17-2005, 04:00 PM	#4
cheddar cheese Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: WSM, England Posts: 20,387	Im with Nonskimmer here.

03-18-2005, 12:24 AM	#9
GT Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 503	Yes, It is understandable and not many pilots did it, just because to most pilots there was no challenge to shoot and kill a helpless guy in a parachute. I wonder what the Geneva convention says about it? Regards GT

03-18-2005, 07:34 AM	#11
GT Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 503	That is also understandable, and the rage when an terrorflieger was captured by civilians sometimes had that sad ending. Regards GT

03-18-2005, 10:18 AM	#13
cheddar cheese Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: WSM, England Posts: 20,387	An Italian one used a captured P-38 in American markings to take out B-17's when they were least expecting it. One of the Radio Operators then Radioed the Italian, telling him he'd been having an affair with his wife This angried him and he tried to take down some of the B-17's, but was shot down by another P-38. Ironically, the B-17 Radio Operator attended the guys funeral.

03-18-2005, 03:51 PM	#15
cheddar cheese Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: WSM, England Posts: 20,387	Hey, it worked for many weeks!

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