 | Mossie nf vs He 219 nf| Aviation Discuss Mossie nf vs He 219 nf in the World War II - Aviation forums; we know they had them, they just didn't the advantage in them, and the He-177 wasn't that ... |
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05-29-2004, 01:48 PM
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#31 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country:  | we know they had them, they just didn't the advantage in them, and the He-177 wasn't that good..............
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | 
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05-30-2004, 05:20 AM
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#32 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country:  | but the He-277 had the more conventional 4 engined layout, i dont think it actually saw service though
__________________  with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
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05-30-2004, 10:06 PM
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#33 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 584
| Only 8 He 299's were produced, and considering the He 199 program was initiated in the late 1930's, it was yet another case of RLM vacillation that led to the failure of them reaching operations. Their design wasn't much chop anyway; - Erich's mention of the Ju 290, Kiwimac mentioned the Me 264, these were two potentially good 4-engined bombers - They also had a Ju 488 and the Ju 390 6-engined job, all of which sadly never reached much of an operational status, which was probably a good thing from an Allied point of view...- All bloody sad; - the big stuff-up for the Germans here, was the He 219, which was woefully underpowered to hunt such energetic quarry as the glorious Mosquito...got a few preoccupied Mossies on it's initial debut, but fell far short of it's 'raison d'entre' as a Mossie-killer supreme... | |
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05-30-2004, 10:13 PM
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#34 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,512
| Regardless of how successful it was or it wasn't (I've heard evidence from both sides and I'm not sure which is correct) the He-219 was the only German aircraft that seemed to have a chance at challenging the Mosquito. What else were the Germans going to use? Perhaps the radar equipped 109s and 190s that Erich mentioned?
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05-30-2004, 11:17 PM
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#35 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 9,240
Country:  | the 262 ! remember my mentioning Kommando Welter in December of 44 when he created this till war's end............? what the heck you can read it all in my book next year.
E ~ | |
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05-30-2004, 11:19 PM
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#36 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 584
| Well they had a few, probably their most successful being the Ju 88. The wooden Fw Ta 154 was supposed to be it, but their glue wouldn't stick, the Do 217 J & N models had a go, Me 110's etc. etc. - But it was a tragedy the He 219 fell short mainly because of under-powered engines, particuarly when they had Methanol/Water and Nitrous Oxide injection systems...I liked them, very unique design, good armament, their handling was abit hairy, but that was the engine-power again...by that stage of the War, their aircraft assembly was becoming plagued by deteriorating quality-control, air-raids, let alone parts availability and the RLM interference, and the jets were getting priority..... | |
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05-31-2004, 10:00 AM
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#37 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,512
| So if the German goverment had stepped out of the way and given Heinkel free reign to do what was needed with the He-219, would it have been a more successful design then?
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05-31-2004, 12:35 PM
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#38 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country: | that depends on weather they could find better engines...............
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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05-31-2004, 12:57 PM
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#39 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 9,240
Country: | speculation again guyz.
we are dealing with what-ifs as we do not know what may have happened if the Heinkel program would have had full on support and the revision of exteranl arms and parts, including replacement of the engines. It may well have seen a redesgined cockpit/canopy, rear armament and radar as standard with a three-four man crew. In any ivent the time of a Mossie chaser had appeared in the successful Me 262A-1a.
possibly go here and check through the older threads for some answers. this IS the German ight fighter forum run by friend Greg Kopchuck of Canada http://disc.server.com/Indices/169401.html | |
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06-01-2004, 05:40 AM
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#40 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country: | The Me-262A-1a within in the first month of service apparently shot down two F-5 Lightnings and a Photo-Recce Mosquito...it's good to read... 
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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06-01-2004, 05:44 AM
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#41 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country: | is there something you're not telling us plan_D, the "its good to read" phrase has appeared on a few of your posts now
__________________ with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
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06-01-2004, 06:43 AM
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#42 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country: | My brother gave me a book yesterday, and I'm flicking through it.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club. | |
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06-01-2004, 07:02 AM
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#43 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country: | ah right  good book?
__________________ with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
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06-01-2004, 07:36 AM
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#44 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country: | It's old it was published in 1978...he found it under his bed and gave me it when I went to his house. So far I have to say its good, but you never know being that old it could be wrong about a lot of things...so I'm testing it on here against Erich and LG 
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club. | |
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06-01-2004, 09:19 AM
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#45 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,512
| It wouldn't surprise me. Both the F-5 and the Mossie were fast, but they couldn't begin to compare with the 262. And it terms of books, for historical purposes, older isn't always bad since it is closer to the events in question.
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