Mossie vs Ju88

[lesofprimus]

Oh BTW, erich, I just purchased Jagdgeschwader 52 : The Experten, and Jagdgeschwader 301/302 "Wilde Sau".... U recommended Willies book awhile back.....

Is the other one also a good book?

[Erich]

Sal if you want to open up by giving some info go ahead as I am all ears. I can give German accts of nf's and that is about it concerning the evasion and ops against Mossies. If one of our English historians can fill us in on Mossies tactics agasint German Nf's or bombers would love to read about it....

Reschkes book should be great Les, but not sure of the JG 52 title.

Plan I'll be back to answer your questions on the morrow

[Glider]

Some Mossies were ordered to maintain patrol patterns to protect the bomber streams but after a certain time they could go freelancing when it up to individual crews as to what they should do. Other planes would be detailed to harass the german nightfighters.
I have read acconts where pilots concentrated on areas around the beacons the Germans used, others would try to contrate on the airfields. Some even tried going into the bomber stream to identify the German fighters that had made it that far.
As a result as Erich indicated the German fighter crews felt that they were the hunted almost from the moment they started up their engines until landing.
I have read about experiments using what we would call early airbourne control units where master fighter control planes guided RAF fighters into areas of German activity. These reached operational trials but the idea was ahead of the technology and it didn't work.
Certainly the Navy had specially equipped fighter control ships with extra radar and communication facilities to control nightfighters in the early days of an invasion.
The USN developed similar ships to be used as radar pickets to give advance warning of suicide attacks.

[Glider]

Erich. I meant to add that your posts on this topic are really very good and always informative.

[Gnomey]

Interesting stuff Erich and Glider. Nice pics as well Erich!

[helmitsmit]

So although the Mossie had sparkling performance it more about who made the first mistake. Due to the visiblity at night. The radar must have also been a factor as both sides were continually up grading.

I heard a report from a German nightfighter pilot, flying ME109G10 in a Flypast magazine.

He sure a Mossie some ft bellow him dive on him but he couldn't give close enough so he open up his engine to max overide and still failed to get close enough and then his engine went bang and he baled out!

I know it is a lot different from the Ju88 but if an Me109 had problem. The JU88 didn't have a chance. And as they were bigger then the 109 they would be easier to see. So it must have been luck that they shot any mossies down at all!?[/i]

[Udet]

I have always had a rough time attempting to understand why is it the allies claim to have had superb twin engined fighters while tagging in a fast track procedure all German twin engined fighters "as no match against our fighters".

[plan_D]

The Mosquito was an awesome twin-engined fighter. And most widely accepted among both sides as being the best night fighter of the war.

[Erich]

Was ist Geschwindigkeit der Schwärzung ?

depends whom you talk with plan. In most cases yes the Mossie late mark nf's were a hand full. we have to remember the Bf 110 and Ju 88 were first marked out as destroyer/bombers and not first as night fighters. the Ju 88 especially is a large craft but most sutiable for nocturnal missions and it was the preferred steed in the Luftwaffe arsenal by 1945

more coming ........

[Smokey]

I heard that the Ju 88 could out turn the mosquito

[Glider]

Udet
Calling it a fast track procedure is a bit thick. The He219 was proably the best nightfighter the Germans had and in performance there wasn't much between them. However the Radar fitted to the German nightfighters didn't match up to those available to the RAF and of course the Mossie.
The Ju88 nightfighter was a converted standard bomber albeit a good one, but it couldn't match the Mossie. The Me110 was also a good nightfighter but again lacked the performance of the Mossie.

People talk about the Me262 nightfighter but frankly and I admit that this is a personal view, I feel that it was the wrong plane for the job.

So for the nightfighters the Germans lacked the combination of plane and Radar. They could and did inflict serious damage to the bombers but against the Mossie they were outclassed.

If you talk day fighters I don't know anyone who says that the Me262 was a bad two engined fighter. If you go for the early 1939/40 I would argue that the Me110 was as good as any other two engined fighter around.

[Erich]

the He 219 was out the door by 1945. Non proven. the Ju 88G-6 was coming to it's own and it is wrong to presume that Allied radar was above standard of the Germans as it was not. The war came to early for the German techs to mass produce several innovations that were not jammable in the spring of 45.

not to get off topic but the Me 262A-1a was superiror to anything the Allies had at night. the stats already prove it. problem was the fuel consumption, again for the Germans the war ended before the enclosed celled Me 262B-2a bcame available which would have dominated the skies but I do not wish to talk of what ifs.

as I said more to come, lets please continue Mossie vs Ju 88 shall we ?

[Udet]

The capabilities of the Mossie are acknowledged.

However, and putting things this way, if a Mossie and Ju 88 clashed in daylight, are they sure the Junkers stood no chance, at all?

I´d have the assertion come under the closest of the scrutinies.

Let´s recall some issues redarding the Ju 88:

During the BoB, the Ju 88 A, as a medium bomber, once the bombolad was released, had extraordinary manouvering and climbing capabilities.
It could hit the 480km/hr mark, while the Hurricane Mk I sent out to intercept it had a maximum speed about 525km/hr, not what one could call a dramatic difference.

Think of a "what if"...the Bf109G´s or Fw190s intercepting B-17s in 1944.
The B-17 had a maximum speed of 620km/hr after releasing its bombs, only 40km/hr slower than their killer?

Keeping in mind the real fast process in the evolution and gearing up of combat aircraft during WWII, I do think this is illustrative.

I have talked to RAF veterans who failed to catch Ju88s during the BoB.

The late Ju 88 G-6 fighter, compared with its former medium bomber relative, increased its speed in 150km/hr, reaching nearly 630km/hr, also retaining flying abilities.

[Erich]

I think I better include some info from my forth coming book " Im Schatten des Mundes liegen " ( Lying in the Shadow of the Moon ), and hopeful this will be of some interest.

By the way several Mosquito night fighters were shot down by rear gunners of both Bf 110G-4's and Ju 88G's

[plan_D]

I suppose gunners would be more deadly at night - after all the attacker does have to get closer to actually see what he's shootin' at.

And I think a Mosquito would have the edge in a daylight dogfight.