Most effective planes of the early war years

cheddar cheese · 06-17-2005, 11:00 AM

I must really love the Hurricane and not know it. Everytime I see a picture of one I feel all gooey inside.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 06-17-2005, 11:01 AM

She was the real hero the BoB not the Spitfire.

the lancaster kicks ass · 06-17-2005, 12:58 PM

yes CC i thought you always liked the hurri???

cheddar cheese · 06-17-2005, 02:02 PM

I do. Great plane, you cant not like it.

the lancaster kicks ass · 06-17-2005, 02:52 PM

this is true.........

Pisis · 06-17-2005, 04:16 PM

I wonder nobody have mentioned Czechoslovak built Avia B.534 & B-35... Overall best planes of the 1939/40, almost equal to 109's but didn't get the chance to show their potential because of the Munich clerk... Bastards!

Hurri is one of my "most favorite" planes, if not the first one!

Cheers,
Pisis

plan_D · 06-18-2005, 02:28 AM

Bah! The P-36 was better than the Hurricane Mk.I and it was more effective in the Battle of France.

Pisis · 06-18-2005, 05:08 AM

Yeah, that one depicted is a personal acft of a Czechoslovak ace Alois Vasatko - the holder of Croix de Guerre with seven palms, 2 Gold and one Silver Star and member of Legion d'Honneur - he managed 15 kills on that one in the BoF campaign. Later RAF Wing Commander, holder of the DFC, DSO and leader of the Cs. Fighter Wing. Killed during a mission 23rd of June, 1942 over Channel in a mid-air collision with a Focke Wulf from III./JG7...

S!

---
Sorry, can't do other.

Cheers,
Pisis

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 06-19-2005, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisis

I wonder nobody have mentioned Czechoslovak built Avia B.534 & B-35... Overall best planes of the 1939/40, almost equal to 109's but didn't get the chance to show their potential because of the Munich clerk... Bastards!

Hurri is one of my "most favorite" planes, if not the first one!

Cheers,
Pisis

Nobody has mentioned it because they are not even near the best aircraft of the early war years!

I am sorry I do not wish to offend you but the Avia B-534 and the B-35 (later renamed B-135) were no where near the best planes of of 1939 to 1940.

Please read your own post: "almost equal to 109's ". If they were almost equal to Bf-109E's then they were not the best. I am 100% sure B-36, Hurricanes, Bf-109's, Bf-110's and the Spitfires were better. The Luftwaffe captured about 350 Avia B-534's and used them for glider tugs. Some were used as night fighters until they were replaced by Bf-109's.

There is no way that a Bi-Plane from 1933 such as the B-534 could compare to these aircraft.

Avia B-534 was Czech-built fighter. German forces captured about 350 planes (including Bk-534). There were concentrated at the airfields of Merseburg, Erding near Munich and several others, whence they were distributed to Luftwaffe units and offered to the satellite states. Luftwaffe organized a conversion course (so-called Avia Lehrgang) in Herzogenaurach. The ex-Czechoslovak fighters were used mainly as training machines with A/B Schulen and the Jagdfliegerschulen both on German and occupied soil. Some of the aircraft were used for special purposes (see carrier-capable Bk-534), especially a group of B-534 playing the Polish PZL-11c fighters in the "Kampfgeschwader Lützow" propaganda film.

Both the 3./JG 70 and 3./JG 71 based in Friedrichshafen were converted to Avias for night fighting use between July 1939 and the beginning of 1940, when they were reequipped with Messerschmitt Bf 109's.

The towing-gear equipped B-534s were initially alloted to the DFS 230 Staffel der Luftwaffe /1-10. In occupied France they served with the Henschel Hs 123 aircraft for training and then being moved within framework of the Lastenseglerstaffel to the Eastern Front, where they served as the tugs for DFS 230A troop/cargo gliders, supplying the encircled gruond troops. The dates mentioned suggest sorties to the Stalingrad pocket, but the pictures point rather to the encirclement of Germans at Demyansk a year earlier.

Repairs for German B-534 and Bk-534's were provided by Kunovice plant and, also, partially the Olomuc depots.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/b-534g.html

Avia B-35

Wingspan: 10.85 m.
Lenght: 8.55 m.
Wing area: 17.00 sq. m.
Weight: 1920/2450 kg.
Engine: Avia-Hispano-Suiza-12 Ycrs 890 hp.
Max. Speed: 547 km/h
Ceiling: 9000 m.
Range: 500 km.
Armament: 1 x 20mm gun*
2 x 7.92mm machine-guns
Notes: Single seat monoplane and fighter.

Avia B-534

A/C Type: Day Fighter
Engine(s): Avia-built Hispano-Suiza 12 Ydrs
Eng. Pwr: 850-hp, Liquid-cooled, Non-F.I.
A/C Crew: Pilot
Maximum Speed: 245 mph @ 14,435 ft
Maximum Ceiling: 34,600 ft
Country: Czechoslovakia Service Entry Date: May 1937

Pisis · 06-19-2005, 11:07 AM

No offend done, ok. But when I say ALMOST, I simply mean almost. So here is what I mean.

B-534 wheren't equal to 109's eg. in speed (for example, they were slower then even Do 17!) but they had one of the best turning & climbing performance of that time. Unfortunately, with so weak arrament and armour, they weren't as effective as they could be.

534's had some scores against Hungarian Fiats Cr-42, and in services of Axis Slovak State they hadn't been declassed against the Russian fighters on the Eastern Front.

Also Bulgaria became some Avias from Germans. They used them against American bombraids(!)

It is believed that a Slovak ace Cyprich (Iron Cross holder) had shot down a Hungarian Ju-52 in 1944 on an Avia B-534 during the times of Slovak Uprising. It is believed as a last bi-plane victory of the war.

But when talkng about equality to German fighters, I meant generally the Avia B-35 & B-135. They could been equal opponents to the German 109 E's. With maximum speed of 535 km/h, 8500 m climb rate and engine performance 625 kW it wasn't a bad fighter though. However, only 12 exemplaries were built.

They were sold to Bulgaria, where tehy had some victories against american B-24's on the well-known operation "Tidal Wave" (bobming oil plants in Romanian Ploesti).

Hope this explains it.

Cheers,
Pisis

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 06-19-2005, 01:13 PM

I understand what you are saying but shooting down slow bombers and Ju-52's is not shooting down Bf-109E's.

Pisis · 06-19-2005, 01:47 PM

Yes, that's true. In the fighter vs. fighter combat (dogfight) Messer had no concurence. Until the Spit came!

plan_D · 06-19-2005, 04:44 PM

The Spitfire was around from the start of World War 2. The Hurricane could give the Bf-109E a run for it's money, as could the P-36. That said; over Poland, Norway, France and Lowlands the Bf-109 was the superior plane.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 06-20-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

The Spitfire was around from the start of World War 2. The Hurricane could give the Bf-109E a run for it's money, as could the P-36. That said; over Poland, Norway, France and Lowlands the Bf-109 was the superior plane.

That is true. The Spit was around actually before the 109. It just was not the main fighter until after the BoB.

And as for the 109 and the areas of combat I agree also.

Glider · 06-20-2005, 05:09 PM

I am afraid that I must disagree with those that say that the P36 was better than the Spit or even the Hurricane (although thats closer). It had advantages certainly but it was too slow. If the Spit got into trouble it could almost leave combat at will, due to its extra speed and trade that for tactical advantage. If the P36 got into trouble he couldn't leave combat and was in serious trouble.
The ability to dictate combat makes the Sptfire a clear winner in my book.