most important feature on a WW2 fighter

the lancaster kicks ass · 12-31-2006, 01:44 PM

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Why did you choose max. speed? Its ony number without practical matter. The max. speeed is only reachable in optimal conditions i.e. level (celling) and long and straight distance. How often these conditions happens in combat?

it's more than a number on paper, if you're faster than your opponent, no matter what your speed, he cannot shoot you down! no matter how manouverable he is or how big his gun is he cannot get in behind you and will have one hell of a job deflection shooting or coming in for a frontal attack, it just wouldn't be possible unless you really knew what you were doing, if you have a mnaouverable plane you cannot pick and choose when to fight, if you get into a turning fight you can't run away so you have to finish it, if you're faster than the other guy you don't have to fight and RE acceleration and rate of climb, you don't need to accelerate if you're already going fast!

mkloby · 12-31-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

it's more than a number on paper, if you're faster than your opponent, no matter what your speed, he cannot shoot you down! no matter how manouverable he is or how big his gun is he cannot get in behind you and will have one hell of a job deflection shooting or coming in for a frontal attack, it just wouldn't be possible unless you really knew what you were doing, if you have a mnaouverable plane you cannot pick and choose when to fight, if you get into a turning fight you can't run away so you have to finish it, if you're faster than the other guy you don't have to fight and RE acceleration and rate of climb, you don't need to accelerate if you're already going fast!

I'm sorry I somewhat disagree

You will not fly in a direct straight line at your max speed forever. In that sense it's impractical. What happens when another A/C dives at you at its Vne which is a heck of a lot faster than yours and starts shooting? Do you stay in straight and level flight and wait till his A/S bleeds off? I would start applying those monkey skills and start yanking and banking...

Speed is important, but alone doesn't allow you to choose when to fight. It has to do also with orders and type of mission, and altitude is very important as well (remember trade A/S for alt).

FLYBOYJ · 12-31-2006, 02:01 PM

Good stuff guys....

the lancaster kicks ass · 12-31-2006, 02:06 PM

i'm not talking about max speed all the time, i'd want a fighter that even when cruising is lightening fast, case in point the Me-262, when were most shot down? the slowest point of their flight, take off and landing! the rest of the time even when cruising she was faster than most aircraft's top speed, once you've opened the taps before going into combat (thus acceleration not important) nothing could touch her, remember we're talking hypothetical aircraft here, doesn't have to very real or realistic, therefore i'd take a phenominally fast fighter.........

Matt308 · 12-31-2006, 03:29 PM

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Originally Posted by mkloby

matt - are you following me around the forum????

Maybe but it's a fun debate nonetheless.

When I'm bored I follow everyone around the forum. Especially Lanc. I have it in for Lanc you know.

the lancaster kicks ass · 12-31-2006, 03:32 PM

really? i considdered myself the dominant male of the two

Matt308 · 12-31-2006, 03:34 PM

I'll let you and Mkloby sort that one out. Just please don't direct him to male anatomy stuffed into a container.

net_sailor · 12-31-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

i'm not talking about max speed all the time, i'd want a fighter that even when cruising is lightening fast, case in point the Me-262, when were most shot down? the slowest point of their flight, take off and landing! the rest of the time even when cruising she was faster than most aircraft's top speed, once you've opened the taps before going into combat (thus acceleration not important) nothing could touch her, remember we're talking hypothetical aircraft here, doesn't have to very real or realistic, therefore i'd take a phenominally fast fighter.........

Me 262 - an exellent sample of fast a/c without acceleration. That's why she was shoot down during take off and landing!
If you want talk about hypothetical aircraft I suggest imagine a Komet without her disadvantages (i.e. droppped wheels and extremly short range, as well blowing up without a reason

). She could be the most acelerating a/c of WWII with wonderful climb rate.

FLYBOYJ · 01-01-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by net_sailor

Me 262 - an exellent sample of fast a/c without acceleration. That's why she was shoot down during take off and landing!
If you want talk about hypothetical aircraft I suggest imagine a Komet without her disadvantages (i.e. droppped wheels and extremly short range, as well blowing up without a reason

). She could be the most acelerating a/c of WWII with wonderful climb rate.

That was due to a flaw inherent in early jet aircraft and the allies were able to exploit it. Had the allies not had air supremacy over Europe Me-262s could of taken off and landed with impunity and things might of been very different. The poor takeoff and landing performance rolls into all first generation jets.

davparlr · 01-01-2007, 12:21 PM

It is obvious that top speed is significant when the difference is significant. Probably most the the powerful WWII fighters would out manuever an F-86 or Mig-15 at the normal combat speeds of WWII. However this didn't prevent them from becoming obsolete to those great fighters.

FLYBOYJ · 01-01-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davparlr

It is obvious that top speed is significant when the difference is significant. Probably most the the powerful WWII fighters would out manuever an F-86 or Mig-15 at the normal combat speeds of WWII. However this didn't prevent them from becoming obsolete to those great fighters.

My point....

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-01-2007, 02:09 PM

hey hey it's my point too

mkloby · 01-01-2007, 02:37 PM

Well I guess guys, I didn't realize that your WWII fighter had a max speed of 600mph!

I was actually thinking of conventional recip prop driven A/C, in which your speed advantage might be rather marginal. Do you guys have AMRAAMs too?

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-01-2007, 02:53 PM

oh you.... he said armament aside

davparlr · 01-01-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkloby

Well I guess guys, I didn't realize that your WWII fighter had a max speed of 600mph!

The point is that speed can become overpowering. A early P-51B would have a significant advantage over a Fw-190A-8 at 20k feet with a 21 mph airspeed advantage. Which is probably good enough to engage or disengage as desired (of course high energy surprise attacks generally gives at least a temporary advantage, with little matter which aircraft you are flying). However, a P-51D, at 10k feet would sorely pressed by a slightly slower Fw-190D-9 with much better climb and manuever.

Actually, a balanced capability would be the best fighter. Now, defining that balance has absorbed, and typically evaded, the greatest aviation engineering talent in the world. Not many perfect fighters have ever been built.