P-38 Lightening vs YAK 9

[kot]

Welcome to the official 82nd Fighter Group website

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Good topic

[Sgt. Pappy]

Originally Posted by kot

that the P-38 was not an amazingly maneuverable aircraft.

Pfft I beg to differ.

I can't look them up now but I've read many accounts of Luftwaffe aces with excess of 50 kills become dumb-founded by the P-38's ability to out turn and zoom better than the 109's even at the same speed.

Not that a P-38 really turns tight at all, but its Fowler flaps tend to give it much more lift for a smaller amount in drag compared to a plane with more conventional flaps. This lets it turn significantly FASTER though not TIGHTER.

More accounts of PTO Lightning pilots glorify the P-38's lack of torque allowing the plane to remain under control at near-stall speeds.

[kot]

Okay guys, thanks everybody for answering my questions. But, if at possible, can you explain more thoroughly WHY the commander of IAP – who saw that particular fight from the ground especially mentioned in the report that the P38 was much more manuverable at the horizontal level and did not have a problem to sit on the tail of YAK9?

If we compare two american planes P38 and P51 Mustang – which one would be better at the horizontal manuvure if the skill level of the pilots are the same?

If the level of the American pilots was greater than the Russian pilots – why did they not shut down all Russian planes?

[santosh]

P-38 were the worst planes in the pacific theatre..coz lots of them were shot down by the japanese zero.

[Thorlifter]

Originally Posted by santosh

P-38 were the worst planes in the pacific theatre..coz lots of them were shot down by the japanese zero.

Your actually going to make the claim that the P-38 was the worst plane in the Pacific.

WOW.

From Wiki....

The P-38 was used most extensively and successfully in the Pacific theater, where it proved ideally suited, combining excellent performance with very long range. The P-38 was used in variety of roles, especially escorting bombers at altitudes bettween 18-25,000ft. The P-38 was credited with destroying more Japanese aircraft than any other USAAF fighter. Freezing cockpits were not a problem at low altitude in the tropics. While the P-38 could not out-maneuver the Mitsubishi Zero and most other Japanese fighters, its speed and rate of climb gave American pilots the option of choosing to fight or run, and its focused firepower was even more deadly to lightly-armored Japanese warplanes than to the Germans'.



From P-38 Lightning in Pacific Theatre

The Lightning was ideally suited for the Pacific theatre. It possessed a performance markedly superior to that of its Japanese opponents. It possessed a range significantly better than that of the P-39s, P-40s and P-47s available in 1942 in the Southwest Pacific, and its twin engines offered an additional safety factory when operating over long stretches of water and jungle. The Lightnings proved to be extremely rugged and could take a lot of battle damage and still keep flying. Missions lasting 9, 10, or even 12 hours became routine, and many wounded Lightnings were able to limp home on only one engine. The maneuverability of the Lightning was inferior to that of its nimble Japanese opponents, but by the use of appropriate tactics--for example the avoidance of dogfighting at low altitudes and the use of fast diving attacks--enabled the P-38 squadrons in New Guinea and the Solomons to achieve impressive results.

When compared with the Zero, the Lightning came off badly in terms of speed and maneuverability at medium and low altitudes, but had a far higher top speed, rate of climb and operational ceiling and was much better armed. When the P-38 tried to outturn a Zero at low altitudes, it usually ended up second best. However, when the unique attributes of the Lightning were used to best effect, the results were devastating. The best tactic was for the Lightnings to loiter at high altitudes and then dive down on Zero formations in a blaze of concentrated firepower, using the Lightning's impressive climbing rate to zoom back up out of harm's way. If this did not work, the wise Lightning Lightning pilot would then use his superior speed to make good his escape.

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by santosh

P-38 were the worst planes in the pacific theatre..coz lots of them were shot down by the japanese zero.

I newbie would only say that or someone trying to be very funny.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by santosh

P-38 were the worst planes in the pacific theatre..coz lots of them were shot down by the japanese zero.

Have you ever had a severe head injury?

[Hunter368]

Joe,

He is right, the P-38 sucked!

So does the F-15, P-51, Hellcat, TA-152!

Didn't you know that? Lots of them all were shot down.

[SoD Stitch]

Originally Posted by Flyboy2

OK I'm really sorry evangilder about comments about the Russian training programs.

It does seem though that in this case the American's had better training and that allowed them to take the win. Without opening a whole new debat; would I be right in saying that the same thing was true over Korea with the MiG-15 and F-86. I'm thinking completely neutrally here.

I'd heard something similar; individual initiative was not something that was taught to the Soviet pilots during the War. There are, of course, exceptions (Pokryshkin comes to mind) but, for the most part, Russian pilots were taught to fly & fight as a group, so breaking formation to pursue an enemy was frowned upon. Very inexperienced pilots tended to keep flying straight & level, or stick to their wingman, which made them easy prey for German (and, in this case, American) pilots. BTW, the source for my information is certainly not impeccable; it's Toliver & Constable's The Blond Knight of Germany.

[evangilder]

I would believe that SoD when it comes to tactics. My point was that the amount of training most P-38 pilots got for the type, was pretty pathetic.

[Thorlifter]

Originally Posted by Hunter368

He is right, the P-38 sucked!

So does the F-15, P-51, Hellcat, TA-152!

Didn't you know that? Lots of them all were shot down.

Ok, your argument is too compelling and you have convinced me. The P-38 was a piece of crap.


Seriously though. Eric, your right about the training of the P-38 pilots. When I was looking for a little documentation to counter the fantastic theory that Santosh had, everywhere stated how the training they got was in a single engined plane until late '44.

[Hunter368]

I believe thats why more then a few pilots killed themselves in a P-38, not b/c it was a bad plane but b/c they never received the proper training how to fly it.

[Soren]

In 44 the training was plenty good though.

[Thorlifter]

That's correct, according to everything I have read.

I think we just got a new quote for Adler's siggy......