P-40 vs. Hurricane

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think I still like the Hurricane better mostly because of its BoB record.

[FLYBOYJ]

A comparison.......

Curtiss P-40 E Kittyhawk
Armament: six.50 cal machine guns

Specifications:
Length: 31' 9" (9.68 m)
Height: 12' 4" (3.76 m)
Wingspan: 37' 4" (11.38 m)
Gross Weight: 9100 lbs

Propulsion:
No. of Engines: 1
Powerplant: Allison V-1710
Horsepower: 1150 each

Performance:
Range: 850 miles (1368 km)
Cruise Speed: 235 mph (378 km/h)
Max Speed: 362 mph (582 km/h)
Ceiling: 30000 ft (9143.6 m)

__________________________________________________ ________

Hurricane
Specifications
Dimensions:
Wingspan: 40 ft, 0 in.
Height: 13 ft, 1 in.

Weights:
Mk I: 4,982 lbs empty, 7,490 lbs maximum.
Mk IIC: 5,657 lbs empty, 8,250 lbs maximum.

Armament:
Mk I: Eight .303 Browning machine guns with 333 rounds per gun.
Mk IIC: Four 20mm Hispano cannon and up to 1,000 lbs of bombs.

Performance

Max speed:
Mk I: 322 mph at 22,000 ft.
Mk IIC: 342 mph at 22,000 ft. (Sea Hurricane Mk IIC: 336 Mph at 18,000 ft.).

Service ceiling:
Typical all Marks: 36,500 ft.

Range on internal fuel:
Mk I : 505 miles.
Mk IIC: 480 miles.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

In performance they are about even, both having advantages over the other in some areas. I do like the Hurricanes armament though!

[MacArther]

Still, the P40 was the better fighter in terms of actual fighter-to-fighter combat (although not by much; and still not the best fighter).

[wmaxt]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

In performance they are about even, both having advantages over the other in some areas. I do like the Hurricanes armament though!

True, its a hard choice. I think I'll go P-40 twice the range, can carry 1,000 and a 75gal belly tank plus its a little tougher.

I'd rather have the 6 .50s over 8 .30s but 4 20mm I'd have to think twice.

wmaxt

[FLYBOYJ]

Armament Information, and a comment about .303's, .50 cal and 20mm's.


"Wiltz "Flash" Segura recalled his six victories in the P-40 relating how "you could hold the trigger for a split second at a time only since we didn't have that much ammo." The P-40 carried only 281 r.p.g."


Jerry Collinsworth flew Spitfire Vs and IXs in Tunisia 1943 with the U.S.A.F. shooting down six Fw 190s. Here are some of his comments about gunnery.

"The 303's were practically worthless against the armor plating of the 190's and the 109's. And the 20's only carried 60 rounds per gun on the V. I believe the 303's had about 300 rds. per gun."


Hurricane
"The IIC's carried a total of 364 rounds (91 per cannon) which - at an approximate rate of fire of 600-650 rounds per minute - was only long enough for about nine seconds of firing. So every second had to count and a typical burst would only be between one and three seconds.

Like all fighter armament, the IIC's cannon were aligned to focus at a point some way ahead of the aircraft. The original Hurricane had its machine guns aligned to converge at a point about 650 yards ahead, but later the distance was reduced to 400 yards. Finally, at the insistence of Squadron Leader P J H Halahan (the Commanding Officer of No 1 Squadron until May 1940), the alignment was further reduced to 250 yards.

Therefore successful night intruder pilots would position themselves behind the enemy, so as to escape observation, and a little above or below, so as to hit the fuselage, and the usual mode of attack would be to tuck in close and fire from a distance of 100-200 yards.

Use of cannon could be colourful. Godfrey ball of 43 Squadron recalls:

"When shooting up trains, the cannon shells would ricochet from both the engine strikes and from the permanent way (if you undershot when aiming at the guard's van) and looked remarkably like flak- blue, red, green and white. It almost seemed at times as if I were going to fly into my own bullets!".

[wmaxt]

Which P-40 model was that, didn't later models have more? The numbers you quoted would give about the same firing time.

wmaxt

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by wmaxt

Which P-40 model was that, didn't later models have more? The numbers you quoted would give about the same firing time.

wmaxt

He flew with the 23rd Fighter Group’s 75th Fighter Squadron, they had N model P-40s.

Yep - the firing times - that's what I was showing - very perceptive!

[wmaxt]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

He flew with the 23rd Fighter Group’s 75th Fighter Squadron, they had N model P-40s.

Yep - the firing times - that's what I was showing - very perceptive!

N models were light weight P-40s, was the ammo load lightned?

Thanks.

Thanks for the comparison too. Sometimes we get so involved in the discussion we forget the actual performance envolopes were discussing. I'm poking fun at all of us - I do it sometimes too.

wmaxt

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by wmaxt

N models were light weight P-40s, was the ammo load lightned?

Thanks.

Sometimes we get so involved in the discussion we forget the actual performance envolopes were discussing. I'm poking fun at all of us - I do it sometimes too.

wmaxt

I know! better watch it - we might start talking about Civil War Tug Boats!

You're probably right about the N model too, maybe the ammo load was reduced?!?

[wmaxt]

[quote="FLYBOYJ
I know! better watch it - we might start talking about Civil War Tug Boats![/quote]



wmaxt

[Soren]

The P-40 was the better of the two, as it proved during the African campaign. (Quite considerably so)

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Soren

The P-40 was the better of the two, as it proved during the African campaign. (Quite considerably so)

With that said it might be interesting to get some numbers of kills, P-40, Hurricane and ME-109. Marselle's tally should be looked at as well as I know he shot down both

[carpenoctem1689]

If i could have flown the P-40, or the hurricane, id go with the P-40. Good dive, decent armament, rugged as hell. Allthough the hurricane can say the same for all of these things, its kind of a matter of your opinion.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by carpenoctem1689

If i could have flown the P-40, or the hurricane, id go with the P-40. Good dive, decent armament, rugged as hell. Allthough the hurricane can say the same for all of these things, its kind of a matter of your opinion.

Another thing to look at is creature comforts - I've flown in fabric aircraft (and partially fabric aircraft) and they always seemed cold to me. I would think the P-40 might be a bit more comfortable in the colder climate although both of them operated in the cold (Alaska, USSR, Finland)