P-47 or F6F-5 - Aircraft of World War II

elmilitaro · 03-21-2006, 05:43 PM

hey guys, which of these 2 planes would you fly during a dogfight.

FLYBOYJ · 03-21-2006, 05:52 PM

-47 all the way....

Gnomey · 03-21-2006, 05:53 PM

Same for me, I would take the P-47.

Soren · 03-21-2006, 06:22 PM

P-47 for me too.... The Hellcat was a better dogfighter though.

Wildcat · 03-21-2006, 07:04 PM

Yep, I'd go the P-47 as well.

Jabberwocky · 03-21-2006, 08:09 PM

Differen't horses for different courses, as they say.

I have some interesting exerpts of Grumman test-pilot Corky Meyer's first flights in a P-47B. His basic assesment is that down low the F6F would out turn, out climb and out accelerate the P-47 and had a significantly lower stall thanks to its much lower wing loading, but that the situation reversed as altitude increased. In addition, the P-47 could leave the F6F behind in straight line speed, dive acceleration and rate of roll at all altitudes.

He noted that the Best climb speed of the P-47 was some 45mph higher than the Hellcats. and it showed a real reluctance to get off the deck. He found the stall speed was some 20mph higher than the Hellcat's, but behaviour in a stall was better than a in a Hellcat: stalls were gentle, with little wing drop and easy recovery and prononuced buffet announcing stall onset.

Corkey then went on to fly some mock combats in a P-47B against an early production Hellcat:

" The Thunderbolt's higher top speed and climbing ability was quite apparent as altitude increased. Because of this obvious asset, I decided that I would as a grumman production test pilot - a former Navy pilot- to meet me at 25,000 feet the next day to try a few combat manouvers. We squared off by closing at more than 600mph airspeed and then began to tangle. The Hellcat pilot tried to turn and evade me, but I was able to roar right past him, pull up in a wingover and get right on his tail. I had an edge because I had talked to ken Jernstadt- a double ace AVG pilot in China. The seemed too easy- almost as if he had his wheels down. After several more it was obvious that my P-47s 300 hp advantage, which gave me faster acceleration, was a benefit in high-altitude fighting capability. It seemed as though the only way a Thunderbolt pilot could be shot down was if its pilot was asleep in its comfortable cockpit "

His assesment seems to have been fairly dubious at first and then growing in confidence as the advantages of roll, speed and acceleration became clear to him.

lesofprimus · 03-21-2006, 08:33 PM

P-47 as well...

pbfoot · 03-21-2006, 09:07 PM

what was average altitude used in PTO? I would guess it would be much lower then the ETO because either protecting the fleet or escorting the attack force the F6F would at a lower altitudes 12000 or less. It only makes sense (maybe only to me) that in the PTO for stealth reasons alone plus no AA to worry about and litle terrain difficulties plus the attack force Helldivers . Daunltless, and Avengers would all work at lower altitudes . I"m going to assume the IJN would also be fighting at lower levels for the same reasons . so in that work enviroment I'd take the F6F

Magister · 03-21-2006, 10:38 PM

The toothpick bladed P-47B was an anemic piece of crap.

The later "D" model with the paddle blade priop, water injection and 2,535hp was a force to contend with.

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-22-2006, 03:30 AM

i'd take a P-47D... then paint it in british colours to make it even better.........

evangilder · 03-22-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magister

The toothpick bladed P-47B was an anemic piece of crap.

The later "D" model with the paddle blade priop, water injection and 2,535hp was a force to contend with.

I would totally agree with that, as would a guy I know from our museum that used to work on P-47s during the war. The other problem with toothpick blades was tha it was not terribly uncommon for them to get out of balance and pop off!

Vassili Zaitzev · 03-22-2006, 11:42 AM

I'd go with the P-47. It can outdive the hellcat and has more armor and firepower ( 8 .50 cals for P-47 to 6 .50s for the hellcat)

evangilder · 03-22-2006, 12:19 PM

I'm not sure there was more armor on the P-47, they were both pretty rugged. But I would go with the P-47.

Twitch · 03-22-2006, 12:25 PM

P-47 since even if I couldn't beat an enemy in energy fighter mode the Jug would absorb damage that I'd likely survive.

03-21-2006, 05:43 PM	#1
elmilitaro Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 405	P-47 or F6F-5 hey guys, which of these 2 planes would you fly during a dogfight. __________________ "And when he gets to heaven, To Saint Peter he will tell; One more marine reporting, sir- I've served my time in hell." A marine gravemarker on guadalcanal

03-21-2006, 05:52 PM	#2
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,051	-47 all the way.... __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

03-21-2006, 05:53 PM	#3
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 15,229	Same for me, I would take the P-47. __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

03-21-2006, 06:22 PM	#4
Soren Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,116	P-47 for me too.... The Hellcat was a better dogfighter though. __________________ It was like being pushed by an Angel! - Adolf Galland I'm an educated engineer, so I love being technical and appraising of great inventions. So if you think I am being biased about something: Tell me! Then you'll probably find out that I am not

03-21-2006, 07:04 PM	#5
Wildcat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Queensland Posts: 4,543	Yep, I'd go the P-47 as well. __________________

03-21-2006, 08:09 PM	#6
Jabberwocky Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 494	Differen't horses for different courses, as they say. I have some interesting exerpts of Grumman test-pilot Corky Meyer's first flights in a P-47B. His basic assesment is that down low the F6F would out turn, out climb and out accelerate the P-47 and had a significantly lower stall thanks to its much lower wing loading, but that the situation reversed as altitude increased. In addition, the P-47 could leave the F6F behind in straight line speed, dive acceleration and rate of roll at all altitudes. He noted that the Best climb speed of the P-47 was some 45mph higher than the Hellcats. and it showed a real reluctance to get off the deck. He found the stall speed was some 20mph higher than the Hellcat's, but behaviour in a stall was better than a in a Hellcat: stalls were gentle, with little wing drop and easy recovery and prononuced buffet announcing stall onset. Corkey then went on to fly some mock combats in a P-47B against an early production Hellcat: " The Thunderbolt's higher top speed and climbing ability was quite apparent as altitude increased. Because of this obvious asset, I decided that I would as a grumman production test pilot - a former Navy pilot- to meet me at 25,000 feet the next day to try a few combat manouvers. We squared off by closing at more than 600mph airspeed and then began to tangle. The Hellcat pilot tried to turn and evade me, but I was able to roar right past him, pull up in a wingover and get right on his tail. I had an edge because I had talked to ken Jernstadt- a double ace AVG pilot in China. The seemed too easy- almost as if he had his wheels down. After several more it was obvious that my P-47s 300 hp advantage, which gave me faster acceleration, was a benefit in high-altitude fighting capability. It seemed as though the only way a Thunderbolt pilot could be shot down was if its pilot was asleep in its comfortable cockpit " His assesment seems to have been fairly dubious at first and then growing in confidence as the advantages of roll, speed and acceleration became clear to him.

03-21-2006, 08:33 PM	#7
lesofprimus Minister of Whoopass Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi Posts: 17,506	P-47 as well... __________________ My IL2 Video Tribute to My Grandfather: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk

03-21-2006, 09:07 PM	#8
pbfoot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: niagara falls Posts: 5,588	what was average altitude used in PTO? I would guess it would be much lower then the ETO because either protecting the fleet or escorting the attack force the F6F would at a lower altitudes 12000 or less. It only makes sense (maybe only to me) that in the PTO for stealth reasons alone plus no AA to worry about and litle terrain difficulties plus the attack force Helldivers . Daunltless, and Avengers would all work at lower altitudes . I"m going to assume the IJN would also be fighting at lower levels for the same reasons . so in that work enviroment I'd take the F6F

03-21-2006, 10:38 PM	#9
Magister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cupertino, CA Posts: 183	The toothpick bladed P-47B was an anemic piece of crap. The later "D" model with the paddle blade priop, water injection and 2,535hp was a force to contend with. __________________ MAGISTER

03-22-2006, 03:30 AM	#10
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	i'd take a P-47D... then paint it in british colours to make it even better......... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

03-22-2006, 11:42 AM	#12
Vassili Zaitzev Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stafford Springs, Connecticut Posts: 2,221	I'd go with the P-47. It can outdive the hellcat and has more armor and firepower ( 8 .50 cals for P-47 to 6 .50s for the hellcat) __________________ "Never was so much owed by so many to so few"- Winston Churchill.

03-22-2006, 12:19 PM	#13
evangilder "Shooter" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 14,809	I'm not sure there was more armor on the P-47, they were both pretty rugged. But I would go with the P-47. __________________ http://www.vg-photo.com For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo Da Vinci

03-22-2006, 12:25 PM	#14
Twitch Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: City of the Angels California Posts: 809	P-47 since even if I couldn't beat an enemy in energy fighter mode the Jug would absorb damage that I'd likely survive. __________________

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