Parachute killings

d_bader · 08-27-2007, 05:12 AM

I have heard stories of Luftwaffe pilots shooting Polish pilots in their parachutes in the German invasion of Poland. So the Polish pilots that escaped to Britain, most likely wanted revenge.

I cans strongly feel for the Polish pilots for they were fighting people who had mercilessly bombed their towns to rubble, destroyed their country and treated them as dirt.

I am English so am not that biased towards Poland, but I am sure that if any person wa sput in that situation, that they would do the same. Especially if you knew that the pilot in the parachute might have killed an innocent civilian relative in Poland.

Watanbe · 09-01-2007, 08:18 PM

d_bader I agree with you entirely, Im not trying to condemn the Polish, rather introducing the fact that Polish pilots were known to do it. In fact I have total respect for the courage and tenacity of the Polish forces. What the Polish gave to the Germans was nothing compared to what they got.

War isnt a pretty thing and while the ignorant public perception is that it was always thought in an honourable and fair manner. Also the general belief that the Germans were always bad and the Allies were always good isnt necessarily true.

Soundbreaker Welch? · 09-02-2007, 08:57 PM

Well, the Polish probably realized that any German pilots parachuting over Britain would likely be captured and end up in a prison camp. In the channel, it's less sure, but the Germans didn't have large operations like the B-24 pickups for downed pilots, did they?

Cub Driver · 09-03-2007, 05:23 AM

It's difficult to envision a level headed flyer from any nation perpetrating such a cowardly act

Actually a very rational act. If you kill the pilot today--parachuting over his own ground--he won't be up there tomorrow to kill you. If the RAF were less likely to strafe parachuting German pilots, that's probably because the RAF were more often defending their own turf, where the pilot going down was going to be captured or killed by Dad's Army. The American fighter pilots by contrast were more likely to be fighting over Germany, where a downed pilot could get a beer and another plane. That seems to me a more serious risk than the hypothetical one that I or my buddies might be in the same position tomorrow--we are, after all, immortal.

The Japanese up to 1942 were always fighting over enemy territory, hence in a position to profit from strafing parachutes. And they did: Paul Greene of the AVG Flying Tigers was strafed in his chute at Rangoon (he survived) and Bert Christman was killed in his parachute or while attempting to bail out.

Note also that the Japanese pilots wouldn't have the same feeling about the act. To them, bailing out might be considered the cowardly act, since it was dishonorable to surrender. (That wouldn't of course apply to Greene and Christman, but the strafer probably wasn't thinking things through.) For the most part, Japanese pilots didn't bail out, and some chose not to carry parachutes.

There were a few instances of Japanese crews over Burma who bailed out, but it may be instructive that the one man who I've been able to trace from airplane through prison camp to back home was by nationality a Korean, known as Rhee Geun-seok in Korean air force service. He became the first commander of the Korean air force academy, and in 1950 was killed while strafing a North Korean tank column south of Seoul.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Now available: Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942

Cub Driver · 09-03-2007, 05:30 AM

Note also that it is always the Other who is strafing parachutings, and the more Other he is, the more likely we are to believe that he plinked men in their shrouds (what a name!). Thus the Japanese are the worst, and close to them the Russians. Germans are more likely perps than Allied pilots, and of Allied pilots, the Poles are notorious for it but can be forgiven. They don't speak English, after all! Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Watanbe · 09-06-2007, 05:38 AM

I think its more an issue of hatred, passion and revenge rather than a strategic consideration.

Smokey · 09-06-2007, 07:38 AM

I read about a Japanese pilot throwing a life ring to a pilot he had just shot down. The pilot waved back, but sdaly was never found

drgondog · 09-06-2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cub Driver

Note also that it is always the Other who is strafing parachutings, and the more Other he is, the more likely we are to believe that he plinked men in their shrouds (what a name!). Thus the Japanese are the worst, and close to them the Russians. Germans are more likely perps than Allied pilots, and of Allied pilots, the Poles are notorious for it but can be forgiven. They don't speak English, after all! Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

My father allegedly made a couple of speeches to new pilots (and some older ones) that went like this.

"For those of who who think it's Ok to shoot a guy in his chute, reflect that there are a lot more of our guys in chutes over Germany (bomber crews) to start that kind of war"

German civilans probably killed far more USAAF crews than LW shot up in Chutes -

Soundbreaker Welch? · 09-07-2007, 03:26 PM

That was kind of the Japanese pilot. Too bad the US airman didn't survive so they could meet again, years later.

Those German Civilians could be terrifying for a wounded pilot. They had gruesome things like pitchforks and scyths and rocks and rope. And when they mob you, those angry Frauleins and their children, even a grown man ought to run and hide or hope some kind Nazi soldier comes along. But I guess those air crews were giving them quite a pounding from the air, so they weren't given much sympathy from the population.

The British population was nicer in BOB, weren't they?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-08-2007, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundbreaker Welch?

That was kind of the Japanese pilot. Too bad the US airman didn't survive so they could meet again, years later.

Those German Civilians could be terrifying for a wounded pilot. They had gruesome things like pitchforks and scyths and rocks and rope. And when they mob you, those angry Frauleins and their children, even a grown man ought to run and hide or hope some kind Nazi soldier comes along. But I guess those air crews were giving them quite a pounding from the air, so they weren't given much sympathy from the population.

The British population was nicer in BOB, weren't they?

I think you could be overstating it a bit...

Konigstiger205 · 09-08-2007, 05:21 AM

Adler is right...there is a huge difference between the BoB and the bombing campaign of Germany's cities...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-08-2007, 09:42 AM

That was not my point...

Soundbreaker Welch? · 09-08-2007, 04:01 PM

Well, I was saying that the German civilians were more dangerous to downed Allied airmen than British civilians were to downed Axis airmen, even though both of them may not apreciate an enemy pilot in their wheatfield, and both probably had grudges agains't him. And the BOB was an attack on all of England.

mad_max · 09-08-2007, 05:01 PM

A thread like this gets all kinds of thoughts going. I probably shouldn't touch it, but...

Pete Peterson was the pilot who pecked at the German pilot. Obie O'Brian has told me
that there were a few pilots that wouldn't of thought twice doing this, but didn't say
he knoew anyone that did.

Did it happen...of course. I'm sure most rational pilots wouldn't do this unless something triggered
a mental lapse and rage ensued.

Alot of finger pointing going on that I have no idea on, but my Wife's a Belarussian and
on my visits to her home country I've seen a number of monuments to the atrocities done
to the Russian Civilians by the German SS Squads that no wonder they became hated
by atleast the Belorussians. I'd say more German Pilots were killed by Civilians than the VVS
shooting them in their chutes.

No wonder the Russians did what they did to the German towns and people. Eye for an
eye..Tooth for a tooth. That's what it was. After this they thought all German's were
evil...they didn't realize that a Mad Man was teaching and leading them.

This link is to the most famous of the monuments. Let me tell you it was a somber place.
Where every home stood there is a stone column with a bell at
the top. One would ring here, then a min later another would ring across the field.
I had chills up my spine, my heart sank and tears were welling up in my eyes. Alot
of thoughts ran through my mind...the worst one is knowing that somewhere this
was happening now and more would come about in the future.

There always will be a mad man somewhere on Earth.

"Khatyn" - The tragedy of Khatyn

Konigstiger205 · 09-09-2007, 03:55 AM

That is true unfortunately mad_max but its up to us to never allow a mad man to gain power as for the Germans there where victims of their own regime....my country experienced communism for more than 50 years and there's not much of a difference between a nazi regime and a soviet one...so like I said its up to us to never allow anything like this to happen...