Pilot of plane that bombed Hiroshima dies

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

RIP Col Tibbets - You did your duty and saved countless Allied lives.

[ppopsie]

Its still a VERY SENSITIVE subject in our modern history which had not been taught in detail in the schools. This is from my own experience.

But I understand it was his duty and Col. Tibbets did his wartime job. The dropping of the bombs were too much blow to the Japanese citiznes and in regard of that I would protest against the decisions made by the Allies.
To my best knowledge accrding to the most of Japanese (war) history book, the effect of the bombs were even not enough to convince the government, which finally succeeded in gaining the control over the military just a few month ago, to promptly decide to surrender.
In my opinion it was possible for the government to control the information if not the rumors about the bombs for to carry on if it wished so. That was what happened after Tokyo was heavily hit in March 1945 in which my mother neary lost her life.

Another factor appearently affected the government's decision making was the coming of the Soviets which the Japanese army had been most scare of. What happened if Japan was invaded both by the Americans and the Russians? I am scared to think of that.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by ppopsie

Its still a VERY SENSITIVE subject in our modern history which had not been taught in detail in the schools. This is from my own experience.

But I understand it was his duty and Col. Tibbets did his wartime job. The dropping of the bombs were too much blow to the Japanese citiznes and in regard of that I would protest against the decisions made by the Allies.
To my best knowledge accrding to the most of Japanese (war) history book, the effect of the bombs were even not enough to convince the government, which finally succeeded in gaining the control over the military just a few month ago, to promptly decide to surrender.
In my opinion it was possible for the government to control the information if not the rumors about the bombs for to carry on if it wished so. That was what happened after Tokyo was heavily hit in March 1945 in which my mother neary lost her life.

Another factor appearently affected the government's decision making was the coming of the Soviets which the Japanese army had been most scare of. What happened if Japan was invaded both by the Americans and the Russians? I am scared to think of that.

Appreciate the very honest and sincere post...

[Haztoys]

Originally Posted by ppopsie

The dropping of the bombs were too much blow to the Japanese citiznes and in regard of that I would protest against the decisions made by the Allies.

And the rape of China that the Japanese did was not "too much of a blow to the China's... ..

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Haztoys

And the rape of China that the Japanese did was not "too much of a blow to the China's... ..

My next point...

[ppopsie]

Major...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Thankyou for you service sir and a job well done.

I dont care what people say. The dropping of the bombs saved American lives and it also saved the lives of countless Japanese civilians in the long run. It was war and war is ugly.

[plan_D]

I must add that the tokyo fire bombings were more destructive (in lives lost) than the atom bombs at the time of the bombing. Of course, the atom bombs caused fallout and problems in the near future.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by plan_D

I must add that the tokyo fire bombings were more destructive (in lives lost) than the atom bombs at the time of the bombing. Of course, the atom bombs caused fallout and problems in the near future.

Plan_D is entirely correct. The first March 1945 attacks on Tokyo killed more people than both nuclear weapons. The Japanese simply don't know whether the real number was 100,000 or 300,000 - just somewhere in that range. LeMay ran out of targets in July... except for Hiroshima and Nagasaki which he was ordered not to strike.

Even as a young child living in Tokyo in 1948-1951 I remember the devastation of the Japanese cities from the low level night raids. As a Gaijin kid I was well aware of latent hostility under a veneer of extreme politeness for 'the occupation'.

[drgondog]

I noted that General Tibbets wished to be cremated and have his ashes placed into the English Channel, but his family is still undecided. His most memorable time was flying B-17s in the ETO and seeing the Channel twice a day... as contrasted with once.

He was very clear about no headstone - knowing the nut cases would defile it.

Salute for a career and job well done. Carry on, Sir!

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by ppopsie

Its still a VERY SENSITIVE subject in our modern history which had not been taught in detail in the schools. This is from my own experience.

But I understand it was his duty and Col. Tibbets did his wartime job. The dropping of the bombs were too much blow to the Japanese citiznes and in regard of that I would protest against the decisions made by the Allies.
To my best knowledge accrding to the most of Japanese (war) history book, the effect of the bombs were even not enough to convince the government, which finally succeeded in gaining the control over the military just a few month ago, to promptly decide to surrender.
In my opinion it was possible for the government to control the information if not the rumors about the bombs for to carry on if it wished so. That was what happened after Tokyo was heavily hit in March 1945 in which my mother neary lost her life.

Another factor appearently affected the government's decision making was the coming of the Soviets which the Japanese army had been most scare of. What happened if Japan was invaded both by the Americans and the Russians? I am scared to think of that.

Very understandable perspective regarding the first and only use of nuclear weapons.

You probably acknowledge that for the US, the war with the Germans was more intellectual and the war with Japan was emotional - the contrast in our way of life, Pearl Harbor, the Phillipines, Nanking, etc all represented emotional wounds that the Germans didn't quite reach until the Concentration Camps were discovered -

We knew based on Iwo Jima and Okinawa that most of Japan would fight and die to the last man and most women and children following an invasion and we simply chose to kill few to save millions. No President of the US could ever say to his people - "I chose to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of American lives when I could have avoided it".

Nobody in US will ever be proud of the women and children that died during and afterwards.

Your question is - in President Truman's role what would your alternative course of action be? And why?

Regards,

Bill

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The most important thing was it saved a lot of our boys.

[Negative Creep]

It verfy easy to look back now and claim the bombings were wrong. But in 1945 people were tired of war and wanted it finished. It was a total war, one which the Japanese had perpetrated, which meant it had to be won by any means necessary.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Negative Creep

It verfy easy to look back now and claim the bombings were wrong. But in 1945 people were tired of war and wanted it finished. It was a total war, one which the Japanese had perpetrated, which meant it had to be won by any means necessary.

I wonder upon what superior moral ground we (Axis/Allies) would have to say that either the fire bombings (London, Hamburg, Dresden, Tokyo, etc) were wrong or Hiroshima was wrong - and in the context of what?

This is not a shot at you NC.. just pondering the great mystery of Ethics myself.

Ethically, killing a human being who is not an immediate threat to you or your loved ones is as clear as one can get in being morally correct (and debatable by many).. after that it is a slippery slope.

I think I fall in the category of "kill or incapitate as many soldiers as possible while leaving as many civilians alone as practible, without sacrificing more of yours - destroy his capability to wage war and resist your will with least cost in lives and treasure as you can" - and leave judgement to a higher being.

[Negative Creep]

Good sentiments but I don't think they are applicable in a modern total war. Bombing or shelling will inevitably result in collateral damage and civilian casualties even with the most modern technology. If it was the Allies who started the war and first launched indiscriminate bombing raids then you could view it in a different context, but the Axis reaped what they had sown. Of course no country ever has a clean record in war, but compared to the crimes Germany and Japan committed US and British bombing pales in my opinion. a Bombing civilians to try and end the war may not have been noble or even correct. But sometimes you don't need to do what is right, you need to do what is necessary