From the pilots view of things..... - Page 5 - Aircraft of World War II

thewritingwriter89 · 12-02-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoHun

(With regard to the 'trim due to flaps automatically corrected' bit: The Me 110 actually changed the tailplane incidence in unison with the flap movement to achieve just that. Normal elevator trim was achieved by trim tabs, only the compensation for flap deflection was achived by moving the tailplane.

So in other words, the normal "nose down" response from lowering flaps is counteracted by an increase in "pitch up" elevator trim?

FLYBOYJ · 12-02-2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Ok here the 109 numbers
22" or . 55.6cm from canopy rail to canopy rail inside
32" or 81.5cm from back of seat to instrument panel
21" or 53cm from front of seat to rudder pedals
15.5" or 39.7cm from top of seat to top inside of canopy
30" 0r 76cm from bottom of seat to " " "
sorry I didn't get the other ones today

Thanks Neil!

FLYBOYJ · 12-02-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewritingwriter89

So in other words, the normal "nose down" response from lowering flaps is counteracted by an increase in "pitch up" elevator trim?

Correct - like most other aircraft as well.

Lucky13 · 12-06-2008, 09:41 PM

How did the gun sights compare to each other then?

Soundbreaker Welch? · 12-07-2008, 02:26 AM

I'd like to sit in the back of a B-17 and go to sleep.....zzzzzz.....

naw, just kidding. I would have to be awake looking out for fighters.

FLYBOYJ · 12-07-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky13

How did the gun sights compare to each other then?

As far as view or obstructing view?

Lucky13 · 12-07-2008, 12:54 PM

View, obstruction of view, accuracy etc. etc....

FLYBOYJ · 12-07-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky13

View, obstruction of view, accuracy etc. etc....

As far as accuracy - I think we could start another thread on the best gun sights if we haven't already.

As far as obstruction - well I have a perspective. I had an opportunity to fly an L-29 with an active gun sight. It was pretty massive and seemed to take up the whole windshield. My "instructor" just told me to "look beyond it." After a while it seemed like it wasn't even there!

By all means it is easier to see without any sight in front of you. Here's a photo of what i was talking about.

kool kitty89 · 12-08-2008, 01:30 AM

I think the German fighters had their sights offset (usually off to the right) to allow better foreward visibility.

I immagine the worst would probably be the telescopic sights on some aircraft in the early part of the war. (some USN/USMC aircraft, notably the F2A, TBD, and SBD as well as some Japanese aircraft, particularly in the IJA)
Some aircrsft still using iron sights might have been even worse.

Soren · 12-08-2008, 12:28 PM

Take a look at the control stick/column, looks like the German WW2 fighter control column.

HoHun · 12-08-2008, 05:28 PM

Hi Koolkitty,

>I think the German fighters had their sights offset (usually off to the right) to allow better foreward visibility.

The offset to the right reportedly was to optimize the sight for right-eye dominant pilots (which obviously were considered the norm).

To improve forward visiblity and to protect the pilot in the case of a crash, the gunsight in the Me 109 would be pivoted to the right, out of sight

and out of the danger zone if the pilot's head struck the panel in the case of a rapid deceleration.

Just a detail, but one I consider excellently designed ... reflector plates were infamous for the injuries they could cause.

Attached a sighting diagram to show the offset. It might also be useful for finding the exact position of the pilot's eye to prepare the visiblity diagram we've been talking about.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Glider · 12-08-2008, 06:35 PM

Interesting statement about the eye dominance but it was a big assumption. When coaching people to shoot, the first thing I test for is to check the eye dominance. You would be suprised how many right handed people have a left eye dominance.

HoHun · 12-08-2008, 07:01 PM

Hi Glider,

>Interesting statement about the eye dominance but it was a big assumption. When coaching people to shoot, the first thing I test for is to check the eye dominance. You would be suprised how many right handed people have a left eye dominance.

Interesting - how does your check work?

(I guess in the 1930s, the Germans were not really into "going with the flow" ... probably they decided everyone should be right-eye dominant, or else!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Glider · 12-09-2008, 04:15 AM

There are a number of tests but the simplest one to do yourself is as follows.

a) With both eyes open put an arm out in front of you
b) Raise the thumb, line it up on a fixed point
c) Focus on the thumb, then on the fixed point in the distance
d) Without moving the arm, close one eye
e) If the thumb is still lined up on the fixed point, then that is the dominant eye.
f) Check this by opening both eyes and closing the second one.

If its the weaker eye, the thumb will appear to move to the left or right depending on which eye is dominant.
If there is no dominance the thumb will move a short distance either way depending on the eye thats open.

When teaching archery I do the same test and if someone is left eye dominant and right handed we actually teach them to shoot left handed. It harder in the short term, but in the long term they will do better shooting left handed.

Lucky13 · 12-13-2008, 11:14 AM

What about radio equipment? How did Luftwaffe, RAF, USAAF etc. compare there, as in range etc.?

12-06-2008, 09:41 PM	#64
Lucky13 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 15,144	How did the gun sights compare to each other then? __________________ JAN "Felicis Tredecim" "I´m going back to the front to relax" "THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT" "Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!" "When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!"

12-07-2008, 02:26 AM	#65
Soundbreaker Welch? Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 1,893	I'd like to sit in the back of a B-17 and go to sleep.....zzzzzz..... naw, just kidding. I would have to be awake looking out for fighters. __________________ "His motor's conked out!" "What's the differance, they're all Nazis!" "Luke, shut up!" "Fear the hook!" "Oh.....I wanna fly." "You mean the kind that go under water and fly up the stairs?" "What you doing? Oh Nooooo!"

12-07-2008, 12:54 PM	#67
Lucky13 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 15,144	View, obstruction of view, accuracy etc. etc.... __________________ JAN "Felicis Tredecim" "I´m going back to the front to relax" "THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT" "Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!" "When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!"

12-08-2008, 12:28 PM	#70
Soren Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,114	Take a look at the control stick/column, looks like the German WW2 fighter control column. __________________ It was like being pushed by an Angel! - Adolf Galland I'm an educated engineer, so I love being technical and appraising of great inventions. So if you think I am being biased about something: Tell me! Then you'll probably find out that I am not

12-09-2008, 04:15 AM	#74
Glider Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London Posts: 3,655	There are a number of tests but the simplest one to do yourself is as follows. a) With both eyes open put an arm out in front of you b) Raise the thumb, line it up on a fixed point c) Focus on the thumb, then on the fixed point in the distance d) Without moving the arm, close one eye e) If the thumb is still lined up on the fixed point, then that is the dominant eye. f) Check this by opening both eyes and closing the second one. If its the weaker eye, the thumb will appear to move to the left or right depending on which eye is dominant. If there is no dominance the thumb will move a short distance either way depending on the eye thats open. When teaching archery I do the same test and if someone is left eye dominant and right handed we actually teach them to shoot left handed. It harder in the short term, but in the long term they will do better shooting left handed. Last edited by Glider; 12-09-2008 at 04:21 AM.

12-08-2008, 01:30 AM	#69
kool kitty89 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,412	I think the German fighters had their sights offset (usually off to the right) to allow better foreward visibility. I immagine the worst would probably be the telescopic sights on some aircraft in the early part of the war. (some USN/USMC aircraft, notably the F2A, TBD, and SBD as well as some Japanese aircraft, particularly in the IJA) Some aircrsft still using iron sights might have been even worse.

12-08-2008, 06:35 PM	#72
Glider Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London Posts: 3,655	Interesting statement about the eye dominance but it was a big assumption. When coaching people to shoot, the first thing I test for is to check the eye dominance. You would be suprised how many right handed people have a left eye dominance.

12-08-2008, 07:01 PM	#73
HoHun Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,765	Hi Glider, >Interesting statement about the eye dominance but it was a big assumption. When coaching people to shoot, the first thing I test for is to check the eye dominance. You would be suprised how many right handed people have a left eye dominance. Interesting - how does your check work? (I guess in the 1930s, the Germans were not really into "going with the flow" ... probably they decided everyone should be right-eye dominant, or else! Regards, Henning (HoHun)

12-13-2008, 11:14 AM	#75
Lucky13 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 15,144	What about radio equipment? How did Luftwaffe, RAF, USAAF etc. compare there, as in range etc.? __________________ JAN "Felicis Tredecim" "I´m going back to the front to relax" "THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT" "Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!" "When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!"

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