 | PISTON ENGINE AIRCRAFT JET KILLS| Aviation Discuss PISTON ENGINE AIRCRAFT JET KILLS in the World War II - Aviation forums; James Finnegan (P-47) vs. Adolf Galland (Me-262).
I was leading the top flight cover of P-47’... |
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05-17-2007, 01:39 PM
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#406 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 2,040
Country:  | James Finnegan (P-47) vs. Adolf Galland (Me-262).
I was leading the top flight cover of P-47’s that was escorting the B-26’s to their target. As I gazed down, I saw 2 objects come zipping through the formation, and 2 bombers blew up immediately. I watched the 2 objects go through the bomber formation, and thought “that can’t be a prop job....it’s got to be one of the 262 jets.”
I was at about 13,000 feet and estimated them to be at about 9-10,000. They were climbing, and I pulled a split-S towards the one that turned left, and almost ended up right on top of him - - about 75 yards away!!
I gave a 3 second burst and saw strikes on the right hand engine and wing root. I was going so fast, I went right through everything, and guessed my speed at about 450+ mph. I recorded it as a probable.
I was flying a D model Thunderbolt with a bubble canopy, a natural metal finish and a black nose. The 262 had a green and brown mottled camouflage with some specs of yellow.
That turned out to be my last flight in a P-47. My kills for the war were an FW-190 and an Me-109, in addition to the Me-262. USAAF James Finnegan-P47
Galland led JV 44 until 26 April 1945 gaining up to seven victories flying the Me 262 jet fighter. On this day Generalleutnant Galland led 12 rocket-equipped Me 262s from München-Reim to intercept a formation of B-26 medium bombers targetting the airfield at Lechfeld. He claimed two of the bombers, but with cannon-fire rather than the rockets with which his Me 262 was armed. During his initial approach, Galland had failed to deactivate a safety switch which prevented him from firing the rockets. During his attacks on the bombers, Galland’s Me 262 was struck by return fire. Disengaging from the bombers, he was bounced by a P-47 flown by 1st Lt James J Finnegan of the 50th Fighter Group, USAAF. Galland was wounded in the right knee and his aircraft received further damage. He was able to bring his crippled jet back to München-Reim and successfully land, albeit with a flat nose wheel tyre. He was forced to leap from his aircraft and take shelter because the airfield was under attack by American fighters. The wound suffered in this encounter were serious enough to end his combat flying. Aces of the Luftwaffe - Adolf Galland
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__________________ “that can’t be a prop job....it’s got to be one of the 262 jets.”.... James Finnegan.
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Last edited by comiso90 : 05-17-2007 at 01:51 PM.
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05-26-2007, 02:48 PM
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#407 | | Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 40
Country: | F4U Corsair killed a MiG-15. I know that. I don't know who did it before. | 
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05-30-2007, 12:30 PM
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#409 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: oregon
Posts: 1,906
Country: | [quote=lesofprimus;169423]Yea, but that fact has been known to the majority of us "Buffs" for many many years.... I've met Yeager before, a couple of times, and the man was a buffoon.... My Grandfather actually got into an argument with him and called him several expletives, including liar....
Mr Yeager could care less about anyones assessment of his accomplishments... His own assessment of himself is all that matters.... He ever denies Welshs' claim to have broken the sound barrier first, even though there were witnesses to the sonic boom he caused....
Pretty harsh comments about General Yeager - he is a lot of things -cocky, opinionated, stubborn - but not a buffoon.
Shouldn't you have to have an awesome resume of personal valour, major accomplishments and superior character to proclaim Yeager a Buffoon? I have known him a long time and learned to manage my own proclivity to 'open mouth and insert foot', disagreed many times and been 'shouted down with "I was there" argument closings when I knew he was wrong. I've been offended by his abruptness and charmed with a smile and a handshake - but I respect this man greatly.
As to bragging, have any of you heard him brag about the three Migs he shot down when he was USAF Air Attache to Pakistan when Indian Migs jumped his flight of 86's? You would think a guy with his enormous 'ego' would proclaim that fact loudly...even with 'lax' security that is the vogue in today's world. Just think - an ego that large who shot down as many jets in one mission as any pilot in history?? The details are still classified as far as I know... but not a well concealed secret in the Aces community.
As to Welsh - the instruments didn't support his claim but you can get a transonic shock wave w/o the entire ship going supersonic. The point is that NOBODY from Air Force Test Command screwed Welsh out of the honor... that wasn't Yeager denying it but the USAF denying the claim.
You are entitled to your opinion but would love to see you guys engage him in a face to face debate rather than denigrate him behind his back... I just wish I had accomplished 1/10 of what he has done in his lifetime.
Regards,
Bill
Last edited by drgondog : 05-30-2007 at 12:32 PM.
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05-30-2007, 12:46 PM
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#410 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,518
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by drgondog  Quote:
Originally Posted by lesofprimus Yea, but that fact has been known to the majority of us "Buffs" for many many years.... I've met Yeager before, a couple of times, and the man was a buffoon.... My Grandfather actually got into an argument with him and called him several expletives, including liar....
Mr Yeager could care less about anyones assessment of his accomplishments... His own assessment of himself is all that matters.... He ever denies Welshs' claim to have broken the sound barrier first, even though there were witnesses to the sonic boom he caused.... | Pretty harsh comments about General Yeager - he is a lot of things -cocky, opinionated, stubborn - but not a buffoon.
Shouldn't you have to have an awesome resume of personal valour, major accomplishments and superior character to proclaim Yeager a Buffoon? I have known him a long time and learned to manage my own proclivity to 'open mouth and insert foot', disagreed many times and been 'shouted down with "I was there" argument closings when I knew he was wrong. I've been offended by his abruptness and charmed with a smile and a handshake - but I respect this man greatly.
As to bragging, have any of you heard him brag about the three Migs he shot down when he was USAF Air Attache to Pakistan when Indian Migs jumped his flight of 86's? You would think a guy with his enormous 'ego' would proclaim that fact loudly...even with 'lax' security that is the vogue in today's world. Just think - an ego that large who shot down as many jets in one mission as any pilot in history?? The details are still classified as far as I know... but not a well concealed secret in the Aces community.
As to Welsh - the instruments didn't support his claim but you can get a transonic shock wave w/o the entire ship going supersonic. The point is that NOBODY from Air Force Test Command screwed Welsh out of the honor... that wasn't Yeager denying it but the USAF denying the claim.
You are entitled to your opinion but would love to see you guys engage him in a face to face debate rather than denigrate him behind his back... I just wish I had accomplished 1/10 of what he has done in his lifetime.
Regards,
Bill | Bill, I'm going to tell you something - I have met Yeager on several occasions and I'll flat out say it, he's an arrogant jerk and maybe baffoon could be thrown in as well. On one occasion I seen him embarrass an active duty AF Major at the Edwards Aero Club just because the Major (The club safety officer) wanted to fly a certain departure procedure out of the base (because he thought it was safer) and Yeager didn't agree with his rationale. Yeager embarrassed this man at the Test Pilot's school auditorium in front of about 100 people. I seen his outbursts on several occasions around the Antelope Valley (where I used to live) and know others in the aerospace community who hold the same opinion of him. Does he have a right to be arrogant? Perhaps. I also know (knew) Tony LeVier, the Rutans, John Sharpe, Fritz Fulton, Paul Metz, and Tom Morganfield to name a few (and I'm not bragging here) and although their accomplishments don't come close to Yeager, none of them behave with the same rudeness and arrogance I seen Yeager display several times. I wish I've flown half the aircraft he did and accomplished one quarter of what he did, but with that said if he treated me with the same disrespect I seen him do to others, I would not of had any problem telling him to his face where he could go - then or now!
And with that said I suggest you look around this forum more and find out who the mods are and some of our backgrounds and our connections to some of these people. I don't care if you're the Red Baron, talking down, shouting down and being a plain jerk to people who look up to you eclipses the highest accomplishments.
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" 
Last edited by FLYBOYJ : 05-30-2007 at 01:26 PM.
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05-30-2007, 01:27 PM
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#411 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: oregon
Posts: 1,906
Country: | And with that said I suggest you look around this forum more and find out who the mods are and some of our backgrounds. You are entitled to your opinions but I would suggest trading lightly when you throw an insult at one of the mods, it's not appreciated. I hope I make myself perfectly clear.
Yes you do.
You make it perfectly CLEAR that because you are a 'Mod' you want me to tread lightly when a Moderator with ZERO qualifications on a par (or within light years) with Yeager calls him a Buffoon.
YOU as a Mod make it CLEAR that you don't like him - I'm ok with that - there are times when I don't like him either - but back to the single point.
Neither YOU - despite your 'lofty' role as 'Moderator', nor the other "Mod's" have the qualifications to describe him as a Buffoon" A Clown, a Jester, a Witless person making coarse jokes" - you have the RIGHT but not the QUAL... nor does any other Moderator on this forum.
You for example, how many missions have you flown over enemy territory in the same high threat environment (If you flew w/355TFW or one of the Thud wings in Nam my hat is off to you - but still doesn't give You the Qual to call him a Buffoon!), or flew ships that were as likely to blow up as match a take off with a landing? And did it for years? Forget about flying 'as many ships as he did - think about how many times he was the First to fly that ship?
Character assassinations such as questioning his integrity in his claims fits in that category also.
Good Day Sir!
Bill Marshall
PS If you have the cojones to let this stand rather than just delete the thread - my hat is off to you - at least you have integrity.
Last edited by drgondog : 05-30-2007 at 01:30 PM.
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05-30-2007, 01:33 PM
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#412 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,518
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by drgondog And with that said I suggest you look around this forum more and find out who the mods are and some of our backgrounds. You are entitled to your opinions but I would suggest trading lightly when you throw an insult at one of the mods, it's not appreciated. I hope I make myself perfectly clear.
Yes you do.
You make it perfectly CLEAR that because you are a 'Mod' you want me to tread lightly when a Moderator with ZERO qualifications on a par (or within light years) with Yeager calls him a Buffoon.
YOU as a Mod make it CLEAR that you don't like him - I'm ok with that - there are times when I don't like him either - but back to the single point.
Neither YOU - despite your 'lofty' role as 'Moderator', nor the other "Mod's" have the qualifications to describe him as a Buffoon" A Clown, a Jester, a Witless person making coarse jokes" - you have the RIGHT but not the QUAL... nor does any other Moderator on this forum.
You for example, how many missions have you flown over enemy territory in the same high threat environment (If you flew w/355TFW or one of the Thud wings in Nam my hat is off to you - but still doesn't give You the Qual to call him a Buffoon!), or flew ships that were as likely to blow up as match a take off with a landing? And did it for years? Forget about flying 'as many ships as he did - think about how many times he was the First to fly that ship?
Character assassinations such as questioning his integrity in his claims fits in that category also.
Good Day Sir!
Bill Marshall | Pal, I could give a rat's @ss how many missions he, you or anyone flew during any war at any time. His antics make him a baffoon just like the same way you are defending him as if he was some rockstar and you're a teenage groopie in heat. Get over it - the man is an idiot, baffoon, jerk @sshole etc. And I would call anyone on this if they treated me or anyone around me with the same disrespect I seen him display toward others.
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"
Last edited by FLYBOYJ : 05-30-2007 at 01:43 PM.
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05-30-2007, 01:37 PM
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#413 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,518
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by drgondog PS If you have the cojones to let this stand rather than just delete the thread - my hat is off to you - at least you have integrity. | AND YES THIS POST WILL STAND HERE AND MAYBE YOU GET GET MR. YEAGER TO READ WHAT SOME OF HIS "FANS" REALLY THINK ABOUT HIM. I'LL NEVER WEAR HIS JOCKSTRAP BUT WILL NEVER RESPECT HIM AS A PERSON DESPITE HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS...
AND YES I HAVE COJONES 2 OF THEM TO BE EXACT
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"
Last edited by FLYBOYJ : 05-30-2007 at 03:39 PM.
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05-30-2007, 01:44 PM
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#414 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: oregon
Posts: 1,906
Country: | At least the Moderator gene pool seems to be consistent!
It seems that your respect is commanded by people 'you like' not what they accomplish in life. Most people like you get their jollies tearing other people down rather than focus on What You Can Do To Make a Difference - are you like that?
Who sounds more like a Rock Star Groupie? Your prerogative - it's your forum you can 'do or say' what ever you wish.. just get over breathing your own air too much - "sayin' it don't make it so".
Regards,
Bill | |
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05-30-2007, 01:51 PM
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#415 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,518
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by drgondog At least the Moderator gene pool seems to be consistent! | As consistant as the @ssholes we have to deal with here. Quote:
Originally Posted by drgondog It seems that your respect is commanded by people 'you like' not what they accomplish in life. Most people like you get their jollies tearing other people down rather than focus on What You Can Do To Make a Difference - are you like that? | I never degraded his accomplishments, the man is one of the greatest pilots to ever fly, but at the same time the man is a jerk, @sshole, etc. and I would tell him to his face, the same way I'm telling you you're being an @sshole. Does that bother you?!?!? Quote:
Originally Posted by drgondog Who sounds more like a Rock Star Groupie? Your prerogative - it's your forum you can 'do or say' what ever you wish.. just get over breathing your own air too much - "sayin' it don't make it so".Regards,
Bill | You're an idiot, I suggest you go play in another sand box....
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"
Last edited by FLYBOYJ : 05-30-2007 at 02:10 PM.
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05-30-2007, 03:20 PM
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#416 | | Your ad here. ;)
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,147
Country: | It's time to pack this in Bill, now. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You may not agree with that, and that is fine. But if you have a problem with it, I suggest you either take it to the private message function of the website, or get back on topic. This is the only time I will say this.
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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05-30-2007, 04:26 PM
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#417 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,536
Country: | Now its my turn....
Sounds like Mr. Bill likes having Yeagers **** in his mouth... Doenst like mean people saying bad things about his boy.... Yeager was and is a prick, and if I chose the word buffoon to describe him, so be it.... Go cry in ur Rice Crispies Billy-boy, cause u'll find ZERO sympathy for that self-inflated jerk...
Now, as to ur little rant: Quote: |
Shouldn't you have to have an awesome resume of personal valour, major accomplishments and superior character to proclaim Yeager a Buffoon?
| Yup, and I do.... Since u didnt bother to find out who runs this forum, I am a former Navy SEAL who served with distinction in several theatres of conflict... I've been awarded for Valor and been recognized by Admirals for my dedication and conviction... My father was a Special Forces bastard who served 2 1/2 tours in Nam, including a battlefiled commision.... My Grandfather was William Case, the third highest scoring Blacksheep from VMF-214...
Ive been around the Ace Pilots Assoc for many many years and rubbed elbows and kneecaps with alot of my Grandfathers pals and buddies.... EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS BROUGHT UP THE SUBJECT OF YEAGER SAYS THE SAME THING...
I do not disrespect his combat record, nor do I belittle his contribution to the success of aerial combat.... He wouldnt do that about my combat record, nor would u..... I have a problem with his holier than thou, piss on u turds attitude that even u have been privvy to.... That sh!t dont fly....
Now that my little lesson is over, let me say one last thing to u so u will fully understand.... Ur attack at Joe is unwarranted and if u continue will lead to infractions and banning... WE DO NOT TOLERATE BULLSH!T FROM ANY MEMBER HERE, WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE WORKING ON A BOOK OR LIVE 30 MILES AWAY FORM ONE OF OUR MODS.... Insulting the Mods is a one way ticket pal... Take whatever direction u want here, but be advised, Ill kick ur @ss to the curb in a New York minute if u u go there again.... Mods here deserve respect because we're Mods and run the place with an iron fist... Dont like it, walk.... Quote: |
It seems that your respect is commanded by people 'you like' not what they accomplish in life.
| Respect isnt earned by an individuals life accomplishments, but by what qualities an individual respects someone for... I dont go around bragging about myself, telling everyone I know how many people I killed and how many claymores I triggered.... I dont need the popularity or exposure... Yeager did and does... "Look everyone, I'm special, look what I accomplished, u didnt do sh!t compared to me so fu*k off".... People like Yeager with that attitude can blow me, as well as all those cronies like urself that like nothing more than sucking off "Heros"....
Opinions a rampant on the internet, and if u have as much "experience" at doing what we do, then u should know that and not get ur panties in a bunch whenever someone insults ur ****-buddy... I got a box of Kleenex if u need some tissues to wipe ur tears, but take ur whining @ss back to whatever board u crawled out from and tell them I said "Fu ck Yeager"!!!
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
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05-30-2007, 04:34 PM
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#418 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,590
Country:  | Oh boy...
I was hoping this would get defused.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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05-30-2007, 05:49 PM
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#419 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 8,957
Country: | .
__________________ 
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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05-30-2007, 05:52 PM
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#420 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,665
Country: | I'm not sure if this is going to help matters but ............I'd sure LIKE TO ADD FROM THE HISTORICAL POINT GUYS in the very near future...........
ok game over lets agree then to disagree about one fighter pilots attributes
where was I now, January of 45 right ?
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