PISTON ENGINE AIRCRAFT JET KILLS

Erich · 05-15-2005, 01:11 PM

one of the meetings was actually both 56thfg aces and friend and artist Jerry Crandall. Jerry had just painted a special tribute to one of the 56th fg aces that had passed away and both Gabby and Hub were there to sign the print. I wans't interested in the print but had them sign several books from me with tributes besdies purchasing Hub's own samll paperback. those two were chracters to be sure. I'll try to get my pics re-scanned to show on the forums some time. this was back in June of 1993 in sisters, Oregon. Only about 50 people attended this special weekend so I was able to get real nosey with these two fine vets......

E ~

plan_D · 05-15-2005, 01:21 PM

Have you met anyone from the 339th FG, Erich? They were the fourth (?) highest scoring FG in Europe and they were in service almost a year less.

Erich · 05-15-2005, 01:45 PM

I was scheduled to go back to Bend Or and meet up with one of their pilots and he was actually the instigator of putting the 339th fg newletter together but sadly he died before we could hook up. I have chatted by both phone and the net with friend and jet killer Steve Ananian. Steve has been kind enough to send me his 262 Jet kill report and even a very long and lengthy service record-pilot logs copy.

plan_D · 05-15-2005, 01:48 PM

I've heard of him, Lt. Ananian right? 1 Me-262 kill and two probables?

Erich · 05-15-2005, 01:50 PM

correct friend. He had the first jet kill in the 339th fg. He is a very kind man, and we have had some fun talks about landscaping of all things since that is part of my profession.....

plan_D · 05-15-2005, 01:54 PM

Did he get any other kills?

I've got the 339th FG with 234 aerial kills and 438 ground kills. Were they just flying P-51Ds?

lesofprimus · 05-15-2005, 01:59 PM

Excellent.... U seem to be a magnet for great men Erich...

I wish to God that I had had the forethought to use a tape recorder when i went to different reunions and meetings with my father and grandfather... Some of those stories..... Jeez Louise........

Erich · 05-15-2005, 02:01 PM

I think it is 240 aerial kills but the gorund kills sounds about right. the big deal for this fg is the ground kill game they played with the higest scores on two seprate dates of over 100 apiece / 105 on 4 April 45 and 118 on 11 April 45.

Ace Jim Starnes is till alive and very active member within the newsletter publishing

KraziKanuK · 05-15-2005, 02:51 PM

OK, this is what Smith/Creek says for Tue April 10 1945.

- first unit to scramble - 2./JG7 from Burg just before the Americans drop their bombs.

- 10 Me262s destroyed on the ground - 3 > 2./JG7, 3 > 2./NAG2, 4 > 10./NJG11

- 14:45hr take off from Parchim > 9. and 10./JG7

Ofhr Walter Windisch and Uffz Loius-Paul Vigg shot down just after lift off, both survive, possibly by P-51s from 20thFG

- 20th FG - Capt Brown, Lt north, Lt Drozd claim one each. Lt Cudd/ F/O Rosenblum share another

- one of these might have been Oblt Franz Schall of 10./JG7(14 jet kills)

- 30 Me262s take off from Oranienburg, Larz and Brandenburg

- Feldwebel Cristoph Scharz shot down - Capt Compton, 353rd FG possible victor

- Capt. Abernathy, 252rdFG

- Lt Clark and Lt Memahan share another

- Lt Tenenbaum, 359thFG, over Gardelegen airfield

- Lt Guggenos, 359thFG

- Lt Paul Ppallenda, I./KG(J)54 killed in combat

- Lt Sharbo, 56thFG, Muritz See

- Lt Collins, 4thFG

- Lt McGinnis, 55thFG

- Lt Lashbrook, 55thFG

- Lt Col Duncan, 352cdFG, Neuruppin area

- Lt Pattilo, 352cdFG,Uelzen area

- Lt Prichard/Lt Ricci, 352cdFG, share

- Capt Pick/Lt Schwarz 364thFG, share

- Lt Gatlin, 356thFG

LW losses > 5 pilots KIA, 14 MIA. a/c - 13 lost, 14 missing, 8 damaged

LW claims > 18, a/c. 11 B-17s, 5 P-51s, 2- P-47s

Erich · 05-15-2005, 02:56 PM

good stuff, but I wish we would have waited later to place 10 april in chrono order. Schall was not shot down but had his Me 262 damged by P-51's and it was upon landing that he met his demise.

Lt Petersburs shot down Walter Schuck's 262 and this is confirmed in the Lt's battle report and first hand interview with Walters chuk as well as other historical evidence. Petersburs flew "Jospehine" a P-51 in the 20th fg.

Walter Hagenah probably destoryed the first jet to US fighter with R4M's ans he vaporized a P-51 when his 4 3cm weapons jammed. this through a personal interview with Walter via long letter and several book sources.

lesofprimus · 05-15-2005, 03:03 PM

Great info...

plan_D · 05-15-2005, 06:21 PM

Good or lucky shooting to hit a P-51 with R4/Ms.

Chocks away! · 05-17-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Udet

With the sole exception of nine (9) guncamera shots from USA fighters i have i would say the bulk -if not all- of those jet claims filed by USAAF veterans are pure tales.

The guncamera im referring to shows 9 jets indeed getting pounded by enemy fighters.

Amazingly all nine shots i owe show the German jet at very low altitude with the undercarriage displayed for landing. In two of those shots you can clearly see the paved runway and even trucks in the back ground. In some others you can see trees, thickets, etc.

Perhaps a few more jets damaged by a bomber box defensive barrage got intercepted and shot down, but the allied assertion of P-51s, P-47s or whatever plane managing to outfly the German jet is in my view a Grimm fairy tale.

Also what i do find quite strange is the fact some Me262s were captured intact at the end of the war and no mock-dogfights involving the Schwalbe and the "perfect" P-51 were made to attempt proving the very common allied babbling saying that when the jet turned "it was piece of cake".

Couldn´t it be the easiest and coolest way to show the world your alleged marvels such as the P-51 could deal with the Me262 in a dogfight?

Make a mock-dogfight and have it filmed god damn it.

Or perhaps such tests were carried out but the USAAF decided to either modify or conceal the actual outcome of such tests...who knows, they have done stuff like that. Why not to do it with the jet.

"Oh, well...the machine surely was fast...but our gallant and honorable pilots could handle it with relative east...whenever it turned, we fried the hun..."

Reminds me of the funny British testing of a captured Bf109G fitted with underwing gondola cannons to prove their Spitfire was "better".
Not even when compared to the gondola equipped Bf109 G could the Spitfire prove any significant and defintive "superiority".

I love this guy! You can always rely on Udet to shatter allied propaganda. Do you have the gun camera shot featuring runway/trucks/etc? I'd like to see that

plan_D · 05-17-2005, 10:37 AM

How is the fact that the Allied Air Force overwhelmed the Luftwaffe propaganda, exactly?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 05-17-2005, 01:20 PM

262's were not very good dog fighters and had a P-51D or Spit gotten them in the right moment they would easily take out a 262 in a dog fight. Udet 262's were only fast when they were trying to get away. In a fight with a P-51 or Spit they would have had to slow down. There is no way a 262 could sustain and turn inside of a P-51 at over 500mph. The P-51 would just slow down and let the 262 fly into his sites. I dont see why you think that they could be fake.