PISTON ENGINE AIRCRAFT JET KILLS

Erich · 05-17-2005, 01:29 PM

so far what has been given in reference by KK and myself is all true and is proven by both Allied and German archiv documentation. True enough the 262 could attack by surprise, swoop down and attack then zoom up and away was the tactic against fighters. In a pure dog fight with tight turns the jet was useless and many times had flame outs all too common which proven one problem with the jet fuel mixes and touchy engines of the late 44 -45 periods. The short duration of flight also hampered the jet as already shown in several instances in November 44 when the jet just simply ran out of fuel, sputered and then was a sitting duck to be overwhelmed. And overwhelmed it was in 1945; there were just too few in the air.

Huie Lambs report ah I see it amongst the stack of 78th fg information lying in the corner of the office......

♪♪

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 05-17-2005, 01:33 PM

I agree the aircraft was best suited for intercepting and ground attack.

plan_D · 05-17-2005, 02:16 PM

The Allied fighters would just wait for them to finish their diving pass on a bomber then dive down on them, when they reach the bottom of the dive the 262 has started pulling up [and slowed down] and the fighter is on top of him and filling him full of lead. Simple.

Erich · 05-17-2005, 02:32 PM

that is a pefect IF and did not always work out that way. the only way as you mentioned was to dive from above on an angle and not allow the jet to fly straight away at top speed. It was critical to damage one or both engines in aerial combat. landing of course was another story and the jet was a limp dog, reason enough for the Germans to supplant the airfield with literally a huge arsenal of 20mm's

lesofprimus · 05-17-2005, 08:09 PM

And to supposedly have the greatest fighter that the Axis ever put into the service, the Ta-152, as a guardian top cover.......

Erich · 05-18-2005, 08:25 AM

Actually no Les...........

the plan for the future of the jet and Germany possibly but the Tank was used or was going to be used to stomp out any P-51 threat when the Ta 152 was to be built in greater numbers....

Sadly for the craft and it's pilots all combats were made at medium altitudes, no jet covers but covering it's own Fw 190Doras and Fw 190A's besides indivdual sweeps

E ~

plan_D · 05-18-2005, 10:34 AM

Well that was one of the oppurtunities to catch a 262 and the other was when they were slowing to aim.

Ananian got his kill when they actually tried to dogfight with him, didn't he? Inexperienced KG(J) 54 pilots, bomber 'aces' but no jet experience?

I read on interview with him.

Chocks away! · 05-18-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

The Allied fighters would just wait for them to finish their diving pass on a bomber then dive down on them, when they reach the bottom of the dive the 262 has started pulling up [and slowed down] and the fighter is on top of him and filling him full of lead. Simple.

Unless you were falling to earth with pieces of b-17, b-24, p-47 or p-p1 and feeling rather unpleasant...

FLYBOYJ · 05-18-2005, 04:18 PM

There's been some grest stuff here! Some more data, a different war...

Here's a list of B-29 Korean War gunner kills. I believe all of them are against Mig-15s. Hope to have more information later this week....

RANK FIRST_NAME NAME VICTORIES AIR_SERVICE UNITS
SGT BILLY G. BEACH 2 USAF 28BS
SGT MERLE GOLF 2 USAF 28BS/19BG
SSGT MICHAEL R. MARTOCCHIA 2 USAF 28BS/19BG
SGT GUS C. OPFER 2 USAF 3BS
STSGT JAMES C. DAVIS 1 USAF 343BS
1STSGT ERCEL S. DYE 1 USAF 371BS
CPL LEONARD B. EVERSOLE 1 USAF 3BS
STSGT WILLIAM H. FINNEGAN 1 USAF 343BS
STSGT RICHARD W. FISHER 1 USAF 371BS
SSGT NORMAN S. GREENE 1 USAF 28BS
SGT EARL A. KANOP 1 USAF 343BS
SGT HARRY J. LAVENE 1 USAF 91SRS
SGT LYLE R. PATTERSON 1 USAF 3BS
CPL HARRY E. RUCH 1 USAF 28BS/19BG
PFC HARRY E. RUSH 1 USAF 93BS
TECHSGT HAROLD M. SETTERS 1 USAF 344BS
SGT FRED R. SPIVEY 1 USAF 371BS
SGT DAVID R. STIME 1 USAF 371BS
TSGT CHARLES W. SUMMERS 1 USAF 28BS
SGT ROYAL A. VEATCH 1 USAF 3BS
STSGT JERRY M. WEBB 1 USAF 371BS
SGT ROBERT A. WINSLOW 1 USAF 3BS
A1C ROBERT L. DAVIS 0,5 USAF 343BS
A1C ROBERT W. SMITH 0,5 USAF 343BS

Courtesy of: http://jpgleize.club.fr/aces/korus2.htm

lesofprimus · 05-18-2005, 04:22 PM

E, I wasnt implying that they were used for this task, but were supposed to be, as u clarified for me...... Thx.........

Erich · 05-18-2005, 06:07 PM

Viktor, viktor, Ich verstehen Les, no problemo............

trying to read Huie's combat report so I can place it here very soon....

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 05-19-2005, 01:19 PM

Which allied pilot had the most kills against a jet? Also does anyone know of how many He-162's were shot down, if any?

Erich · 05-19-2005, 02:05 PM

no more that 2 jet kills were recorded by any one pilot in the air. On the ground might be another story....

He 162's have been claimed as well as He 162's killing RAF single engine jobs but frankly I still have not found confirmed evidence. The 162 was a death trap to JG 1 pilots....

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 05-19-2005, 02:13 PM

Yeah thanks, I too have not found anything on the 162 subject that is confirmed.

delcyros · 05-19-2005, 03:48 PM

There are six claims of He-162 credited kills from which one has been officially confimed by the Luftwaffe (posthum, Kirchner), I posted four of them (all JG-1) in the Me262vsP-80 poll (compare there).
the two other claims are from JV-"Oesau" (..not sure about the designation, but it is not JG-1, it was a proposed basic unit for later HJ flyers):

No.------Name-------------date--------area----------------type----eyewitnesses
#5---OT Adolf Dickfeld----21.4.45----central Germany--P-47----unknown
#6---Lt W.Batz-------------22.4.45----central Germany--P-47----unknown

No official confirmation by Luftwaffe, of course.
As far as I see one He-162 was claimed by RAF Tempests, but there must be more (at least the P-47 which fatally damaged Kirchners He-162).
Verification of these claims is a hard matter, since the losses by 2nd tactical airforce (in case of #1-#4) in the given time and area are much higher than the losses but the reasons my differ. At least R. Schmitts claim of a Typhoon/Tempest was also made by a local 2 cm Vierlingsflak. The P-47 losses relie on the credibility of the claimers (also more losses known), at least kirchners claim maybe correct, since the RAF pilot shot down was captured and interrogated (he confirmed) on May,1st, 45.