If the Rare Bear became a ww2 fighter. (1 Viewer)

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Man alive what it is to be will fully miss represented. AN opponent to be respected doesn't mean it is superior it means you have to fight it on your terms not the tempest s. The phrase was quoting a lw 262 pilot. The two planes had different missions if they met at low altitude th e 262 was returning and low on fuel. I agree with Gray geist and flyboy but please if you want to fabricate argument don't use me.
 
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Fast mongrel what I meant was that tempest s were used to intercept 262s returning to base in this situation they were vulnerable even if not exactly wheels down, they had slowed and were at low altitude. A 262 could not engage max power in an instant.. taking nothing from.the 262 it was a fine plane I was just answering the original post.....now I am off for a beer. Prost
 
No one said "easily", you did.

Facts are, that the Me262 was built for speed and delivering a wicked punch to it's target...it was not intended to be a dog-fighter. There are several cases where the Me262, at the hands of a skilled pilot, was able to fight their way out of a group of P-51Ds or similar types, but this is the exception to the rule and a good number of Me262s caught in the same circumstances did not make it out alive.

Unlike a piston fighter, the Me262 could not quickly recover from bled-off speed by jumping the throttle and that left it in an exposed condition. Once it's speed was down, it was vulnerable. Add to that, it's inability to absorb damage to it's engine(s) unlike it's piston adversaries and the Allies knew that and more often than not, would aim for the engines just for this reason. Hits to the engine resulted in immediate and catastrophic results.

Unlike a piston engine fighter the me 262 could retain his Energy through High speed turns much much better. Why should a 262 let its speed fell down? He could impose its own terms of dogfight.A High speed dogfight is still a dogfight. And at High speed had excellent agility. While most piston engine fighters could turn inside the turning circle of 262, it could fly faster in the perimeter of the circle. So to correct thing to say is " the 262 had to respect the tempest IF its pilot was stupid or inexperienced or outnumbered 20-1 or taken by surprise"
About the vulnerability of its engines, what i can say. Hits on its engines had catastrophic results, while hits on the engines of P51, Spitfire, Tempest, La7, P38, had positive results in their performance.Besides, the damage resistance of these planes is legendary
 
Unlike a piston engine fighter the me 262 could retain his Energy through High speed turns much much better. Why should a 262 let its speed fell down? He could impose its own terms of dogfight.A High speed dogfight is still a dogfight. And at High speed had excellent agility. While most piston engine fighters could turn inside the turning circle of 262, it could fly faster in the perimeter of the circle. So to correct thing to say is " the 262 had to respect the tempest IF its pilot was stupid or inexperienced or outnumbered 20-1 or taken by surprise"
About the vulnerability of its engines, what i can say. Hits on its engines had catastrophic results, while hits on the engines of P51, Spitfire, Tempest, La7, P38, had positive results in their performance.Besides, the damage resistance of these planes is legendary
Ok, now you're just being ridiculous.

If the Me262 was such a wunderwaffe, why didn't it win the war? Why then, if the Me262 was so freakin' awesome, how did it get shot down in the numbers that it did?

Wishful thinking does not change history...the Me262 was not a dog fighter. Holding high-speed in a turn means a wider arc and anything that can drop it's speed substantially can turn inside that arc. The Me262 could not drop it's speed to get inside the arc and hope to increase it's speed after pulling such a manouver without leaving it's ass dangling out there for an adversary to shoot full of holes.
 
Unlike a piston engine fighter the me 262 could retain his Energy through High speed turns much much better. Why should a 262 let its speed fell down? He could impose its own terms of dogfight.A High speed dogfight is still a dogfight. And at High speed had excellent agility. While most piston engine fighters could turn inside the turning circle of 262, it could fly faster in the perimeter of the circle. So to correct thing to say is " the 262 had to respect the tempest IF its pilot was stupid or inexperienced or outnumbered 20-1 or taken by surprise"
About the vulnerability of its engines, what i can say. Hits on its engines had catastrophic results, while hits on the engines of P51, Spitfire, Tempest, La7, P38, had positive results in their performance.Besides, the damage resistance of these planes is legendary
If you cannot land because a tempest is there you get rid of him or run out of fuel. As you can read from links here the ow set up escorts of FW 190s and flak alleys to protect them.
 
Ok, now you're just being ridiculous.

If the Me262 was such a wunderwaffe, why didn't it win the war? Why then, if the Me262 was so freakin' awesome, how did it get shot down in the numbers that it did?

Wishful thinking does not change history...the Me262 was not a dog fighter. Holding high-speed in a turn means a wider arc and anything that can drop it's speed substantially can turn inside that arc. The Me262 could not drop it's speed to get inside the arc and hope to increase it's speed after pulling such a manouver without leaving it's ass dangling out there for an adversary to shoot full of holes.

You just dont get it. The me 262 had a wider arc but was flying much much faster on its arc. The piston engined fighters could initially turn inside that arc but flying in a much slower speed could not attack the me and soon would loose even more speed.All me had to do was to keep its speed and sooner or later would find a firing opportunity
 
You just dont get it. The me 262 had a wider arc but was flying much much faster on its arc. The piston engined fighters could initially turn inside that arc but flying in a much slower speed could not attack the me and soon would loose even more speed.All me had to do was to keep its speed and sooner or later would find a firing opportunity

How do you accomplish that when taking off and landing?
 
Errr the 262 had to land, if it could land at 450mph then no problem.
Respect v fear

In the BoB a spitfire pilot must respect a 109 @ vice versa. They had strengths and weaknesses but very similar overall.
A hurricane pilot should fear a 109 pilot because he has an advantage in speed and armament that his not easily overcome.
A 109 pilot should respect a hurricane pilot because unless you use your advantage he has 8 mgs and they can hurt you.
 
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I am still trying to figure out how a plane flying a larger diameter circle ever gets the plane flying the smaller diameter circle in it's sights, especially if the plane with the larger circle has a higher stalling speed.

I am looking for references to circular aerodromes.
 
You just dont get it. The me 262 had a wider arc but was flying much much faster on its arc. The piston engined fighters could initially turn inside that arc but flying in a much slower speed could not attack the me and soon would loose even more speed.All me had to do was to keep its speed and sooner or later would find a firing opportunity
I do get it, much better than you, aparently.

In reading a good number of first-hand Luftwaffe and Allied accounts of encounters, it becomes aparent that the Me262 did indeed have shortcomings in a turning fight, where the very act of banking bleeds off airspeed. Yes, we all agree that the Me262 was fast, but a fatal mistake for a Me262 pilot to make, was to dive away from certain Allied fighters, such as the P-51. Another fatal mistake, was to engage in a turning fight with certain types.

If you have ever flown an aircraft, you would understand that to bank your aircraft is to bleed off speed. Loss of speed brings about a couple of conditions, one being a stall and the other is loss of altitude.

I don't care if you're flying a Fokker D.VII or a MiG-29, you will experience this fact of physical law. The Me262 was no exception. What the Me262 could not do, was drop the engine RPMs to tighten a turn to get a favorable firing solution and then increase the throttle again, to recover speed. This is where a piston powered fighter would have the instant advantage over the Me262.

Again, you cannot enter into a tight, turning fight, without paying a speed penalty.

Period.
 

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