 | Rising Sun warbirds| Aviation Discuss Rising Sun warbirds in the World War II - Aviation forums; Hey d_bader, do me a favour. Put your one line comments in one post from now on. Use the edit ... |
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09-11-2005, 11:57 AM
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#151 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,957
Country:  | Hey d_bader, do me a favour. Put your one line comments in one post from now on. Use the edit function if necessary. I did it this time. | 
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09-11-2005, 12:16 PM
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#152 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,235
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by d_bader I think that we are all slightly biased and I think that we should be fairer with our opinions. The zero desrved its fame because it did cause a lot of trouble for allied forces and must have been quite good to get a reputation like that. If planes like the mustang and thunderbolt were used in the pacific then maybe a more realistic story of how good the zero was would of appeared. | You are right about the Zero causing trouble for allied forces as US obsession with it used up valuable manpower and resources, but what you're missing is the combat record shown what the Zero actually accomplished does not make it out to be that great of a fighter. Considered the worse US Naval fighter by many, the F4F had almost a 4 to 1 kill ratio against it, and even at Coral Sea where the Zero had just over a 1 to 1 kill ratio over the F4F, you would of thought the Zero would of performed a lot better for being this swift, mystical, super maneuverable fighter against a fighter that it was faster and more maneuvable than......
No bias here - just facts.......
Oh and for your information bader, the P-51 and P-47 were used in the Pacific. Find out who Neil Kearby was.....
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09-11-2005, 12:27 PM
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#153 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country:  | i think he knows they were used in the pacific and what he's trying to say is that the zero mush have been pretty good if they had to get great planes like the -51 and -47 in to counter them........
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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09-11-2005, 12:35 PM
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#154 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,235
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass i think he knows they were used in the pacific and what he's trying to say is that the zero mush have been pretty good if they had to get great planes like the -51 and -47 in to counter them........ | The -51 came in late in the war, the -47 was there in limited numbers starting in late 43' (I think). By then the Zero was being pretty well pounded......
I don't know Lanc, the F4F did pretty well against it - the F6F slaughtered it!
And as far as the USAAF - the P-38 also gave it (and other Japanese fighters) a good thrashing, not to say at any given time it was a cake walk for the USN or the USAAF.......
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09-11-2005, 12:52 PM
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#155 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,844
Country:  | I am sorry if you feel that way. Most people here have to come to the conclusion that your precious Zero is overated and a myth. And based off of facts it is. Hell the Great Turkey Shoot is a great example of the Zero getting destroyed by so called inferior allied planes. I think it is the other way around.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | 
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09-11-2005, 01:01 PM
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#156 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,235
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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet I am sorry if you feel that way. Most people here have to come to the conclusion that your precious Zero is overated and a myth. And based off of facts it is. Hell the Great Turkey Shoot is a great example of the Zero getting destroyed by so called inferior allied planes. I think it is the other way around. | Yep! 
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09-11-2005, 01:09 PM
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#157 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country: | that wasn't my opinion i was just trying to expalin what i thought he was saying.........
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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09-11-2005, 01:18 PM
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#158 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,235
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Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass that wasn't my opinion i was just trying to expalin what i thought he was saying......... | No worries Lanc 
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09-11-2005, 02:20 PM
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#159 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,844
Country: | My post was not meant for yours Lanc. It was meant in general to d_baders post about how we are biased. I think we have based out bias off of facts.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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09-11-2005, 02:37 PM
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#160 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,235
Country: | Yep - especially some of the facts posted by Rich.....
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09-11-2005, 02:39 PM
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#161 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,844
Country: | I just think that if the Jap planes were so superior then why dont the kills show that.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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09-11-2005, 03:44 PM
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#162 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
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Originally Posted by d_bader I think that we are all slightly biased and I think that we should be fairer with our opinions. The zero desrved its fame because it did cause a lot of trouble for allied forces and must have been quite good to get a reputation like that. If planes like the mustang and thunderbolt were used in the pacific then maybe a more realistic story of how good the zero was would of appeared. | P-47s (522) out numbered P-38s (315) and 100 P-51s were also in service Jan '44.
By May '44 there were 502 P-38s, 1.42 P-47s and 200 P-51s.
By Jan '45 on there were up to 1,500 P-51s and P-47s and P-38s rose to 1,142.
From Jan '43 to Sep '44 there was a relitively constant 500 P-40s
The AAF only averaged 1,100 fighters against Japan in '43 and 2,100 in '44.
wmaxt | |
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09-11-2005, 03:47 PM
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#163 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,844
Country: | And the Wildcats and Hellcats were doing just fine against the Zeros themselves.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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09-11-2005, 04:16 PM
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#164 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,235
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet And the Wildcats and Hellcats were doing just fine against the Zeros themselves. | Yep!
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09-11-2005, 04:28 PM
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#165 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 286
| A decent pilot, flying a zero, of the A6M5 series, or even the A6M2 could cope with the average american pilot in a wildcat or hellcat. it was the attrition, and numbers disadvantage that cursed the zero. Not to mention the P-38 and the F4U. Theyre speed and superb ruggedness made them almost invulnerable to the zeke. | |
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