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Old 09-19-2005, 01:21 PM   #196
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If you are referring to “Informational Intelligence Summary No. 85 – Flight Characteristics of the Japanese Zero Fighter” (December 1942), you might want to carefully re-read the document. It clearly sets forth the instances were the A6M2 was found to be superior and where it was deficient. The report points to the previously identified (September 1942) rapid fall off of maneuvering ability as the A6M2 approaches 300 knots and the engine cut-out under conditions of negative Gs.

The document is US government and no longer classified (de-classified in 195 and as such is in the public domain. In fact, you can find a copy already posted on the internet at:

http://www.warbirdforum.com/diego.pdf

The propeller on the A6M2 #4593 was the original. One blade was slightly damaged in the crash and was repaired. The “replacement” of the propeller is one of the recurring myths surrounding the restoration of # 4593. It is usually trotted out to try to explain away any performance failings. Oddly enough, had the Navy replaced the original, they would have used a Hamilton constant speed type which was essentially identical to the original.

Here is a narrative from a USN fighter pilot, an F4F ace with 2 A6M2s to his credit, who flew this aircraft in September and October of 1944:

“I first saw the captured Zero as a pile of salvage shortly after it arrived from Alaska. Soon after I was sent to the Southwest Pacific and didn’t see the plane again until August 1944 while I was assigned as fighter training officer at ComFAirWest at San Diego.

“The Zero had gone to Tactical Air Intelligence Center and was based at Anacostia Naval Air Station, near Washington, D.C. After Sanders, Hoffman, and others tested, compared, and evaluated the airplane, the Army put it though similar paces.

“While fighter training officer at San Diego, I learned that Koga’s Zero was still at Anacostia, airworthy, but unused. I arranged for it to be flown to San Diego. The Zero 21 was a mighty sweet machine, even in its superannuated. The refined aerodynamic design was not compromised by mass production. Fit and finish of all plates, rivets, the close and accurate fit of fairings, engine cowl, access plates, canopy, and wheel doors were most faithfully executed.

“The propeller spinner faired into a cowling that smoothed the contours of the reduction gear housing of the engine. The interior aerodynamics of the engine cowling permitted the adequate cooling of the two-row 14-cylinder engine with a remarkably small intake. Contrast that with the inlet on the F4F-3 and -4 which originally came with a spinner but had to sacrifice it to cure engine overheat problems. The Sakae engine looked and sounded much like our R-1830. It ran smoothly and cool. Displacement was somewhat less that the Pratt and Whitney 1839, but its 1130 hp was smoother and adequate. It was not supercharged as extremely as the R-1830-76/86 and at very high altitude (over 30,000 feet) compared very poorly with the Pratt and Whitney. But we hardly ever encountered Zeros above 10,000 feet with our F4F-3s and -4s, so we were carrying supercharger hardware as extra baggage. The F4F, which became the FM-2, was re-engined with the Wright R-1820 with about the same power as the R-1830, but much less supercharger. This was a better machine to fight Zeros with, but we didn’t get in squadrons until 1944, and by that time the Zero was no the problem it had been in the beginning.

“By the time I was flying the Zero 21 it may have had some of its automatic systems disabled. An example is the automatic altitude compensation of carburetor mixture. The first time I went for altitude the engine began to cut up disgracefully above 5000 feet. Worried that the engine was giving up, mixture came to mind. On this machine full rich is a rearward position of the mixture control. Manual leaning comes by easing this control forward. On doing this gingerly the engine smoothed up beautifully and the airplane jumped ahead with about 500 more horses - no less.

“The propeller was auto hydraulic *** Hamilton – no mysteries. We ran the engine as though it was an R-1830, but did not let the RPM go over 2600.

“The case of the manifold pressure gauge had been cracked n the crash at Akutan and it leaked. It was left in the instrument panel, but we used a standard AN type attached to a bracket nearby.

“The throttle sat in a quadrant outboard of the mixture control. It was shaped like the handle of a knife – complete with wood side plates for contour. It was about five inches long and on the top had a switch to be operated by the left thumb. This switch was for cutting in or out the 20mm cannon.

“The Zero carried many rounds of 7.7mm for the two fuselage guns and only 80 to 100 for each of the 20mm wing guns. Ergo, sight in with the 7.7 then cut in the two 20s for telling shots. I dimly remember there was a trigger lever you could pull up and squeeze on the front edge of the throttle. If you were not in combat, this lever would drop down where inadvertent firing was precluded (we had sad events because the trigger on the stick of U.S. fighters was easily squeezed in excitement).

“Cockpit was not so tidy as the F4F, but easily as tidy as the F4U and earlier Vought birds. Instruments were much like ours, but metric for pressures, temperatures, [and] altitude. Airspeed was in knots. It had an inner and outer scale as the needle needed to go around about 1½ circles to get to the high end of the scale.

“In the Zero 52 there was an exhaust temperature gauge as well as the usual cylinder head temperature gauge. My guess is that it was a refinement to fine tune the mixture to get the remarkable endurance and range the Zero was famous for.

“Gyro horizon had a sky blue upper half like some of the German WWII instruments I have seen. To the envy of every F4F pilot, the landing gear was hydraulically actuated!

"Tail wheel was fully retracted behind tight doors. Tail hook was faired into a recess along the keel. The hook was hinged on the end of its strut, latched in the snatch position to catch the wire then dumped, so the Zero could taxi forward over other wired unimpeded. I understand we toyed with this idea but gave it up because of worries it might misbehave and cause an unarrested landing.

“Brakes were hydraulic – weak. The wide tread and relatively low landing speed favored weak brakes so you might say they were adequate. Rudder bar was center-pivoted with stirrups for each foot. Brakes were actuated by a hand lever; rudder angle determined which wheel received braking action.

“The canopy gave a beautiful view of the outside world, noticeably good to the rear in contrast to our VF’s. The enclosure was made up of many panes of plexi, some contoured. Wind noise was moderate. Some of the enclosure had been destroyed and was remade by A and R.

“The windscreen section was original, for it bore deep craters from the corrosion that took place during its dip into the marsh of Akutan. These cavities had a way of coming into focus when air speeds built up. I often wondered why they had not been replaced by A and R. In VF-42 we had some nasty experiences with the original F4F windscreens blowing out on use when flying at more that 300 knots. Grumman corrected it with a beef-up that robbed us of valuable forward vision, but it ended the problem. The Zero had no such heavy structure in the first place, so it was a source of uneasiness.

“The Zero 21 had no primer for engine starting. The carburetor has a large capacity acceleration pump you feel when you moved the throttle. To start, you had the mechanic wind up the inertia starter as you wobbled up fuel pressure and work the throttle two or three times to spray in the discharge of the accelerator pump. On contact the engine rolled over readily, caught, and picked up to run without complaint.

“The carburetor barrel has an oil jacket through which circulated lube oil to combat any tendency to form ice. I’m not sure whether it was always in action of selectable from the cockpit. We never touched it as I remember. Seems a tidy way to handle ice.

“In February-March 1945 I has a dandy low-time fresh-caught Zero 52 to fly. It was much like Koga’s Model 21, but heavier because of two more 20mm guns. It had a hundred or so more horses, and ejection type exhaust stakes, but flew essentially like the Model 21 – very sweet.”

I’d suggest a look at Jim Reardon’s “Koga Zero”. There’s a couple of other reports wandering around if you know where to look, such as Lt Cdr Eddie Sanders’ initial evaluation “Report for Flight Test Officer – 29 September 1942” (and duplicated within the “Enemy Material Report, No 71 – Headquarters, Allied Air Forces South West Pacific Area Directorate of Intelligence”) and “Technical Aviation Intelligence Brief No. 3” (4 November 1942). There is also another report from 4 September 1942, “Informational Intelligence Summary No. 59 – The Japanese Zero Fighter” that is a compilation of information based on examination of crashed aircraft from various locations and issued some 16 days before the A6M2 # 4593 was first flown by Sanders.

FWIW, the Sanders report fully describes the propeller: “The propeller is a hydraulically operated constant speed 3-blade design, 9’6” in diameter, much like ours with many parts interchangeable.” Intelligence Summary No. 59 also describes the propeller used on the A6M2 and corroborates the statements of Sanders and the gent who flew the plane in 1944: “The propeller is a 3-blade, constant speed Sumitomo of the hydraulic type, and apparently identical with the Hamilton model.”


Regards,

Rich
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Old 09-19-2005, 02:46 PM   #197
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one other interesting fact about the design of the Zero........ the IJN wanted the design of the airframe to allow for the engine to be changed quickly. I think it took less than 30 minutes for a complete engine change as compared to hours with the F4F.
I've seen F4F and Zeros up front and having changed a few large radial recips, I would say they look about the same. Maybe the differance lies in adjusting the engine controls (prop, mixture, throttle) but basically the layout seems the same.

Great information Rich!
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Old 09-19-2005, 02:59 PM   #198
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The engine mounts, electrical harness and the other engine accessories were all easily accessed.

Some simple "human engineering" paid lots of dividends in field maintenence.
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:21 PM   #199
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In looking at photos of both aircraft it seems the engine mount set up is similar. 4 engine mount points on the engine bolted on a steel tube engine mount, which in turn is bolted to the airframe, again in 4 points. it seems the zero cowl might come off easier (Eric could verify this). The F4F had a cooler intake and carburetor duct on the cowl so this would probably require removal once the cowl is off. Aside from that it's a matter of disconnecting electrical harnesses, rigging for the throttle, prop. control and mixture control and then un-bolting the engine. Some manufacturers mandate you remove the propeller first, others allow the engine and propeller to be removed together.

Once the engine is removed and the new one installed, the major consumer of time is rigging the engine. This involves setting up engine controls so they work through their designed travel and have the engine correlate those adjustments when the engine is run up after installation.

The Zero might be a bit simpler to do an engine change on but I don't think you're looking at major time difference between the two.
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:53 PM   #200
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one other interesting fact about the design of the Zero........ the IJN wanted the design of the airframe to allow for the engine to be changed quickly. I think it took less than 30 minutes for a complete engine change as compared to hours with the F4F.
Indeed, former Vought Engineers claim that the Zero's QEC package drew heavily from the Vought V-143 fighter prototype, sold to Japan in 1938. One Engineer stated that the entire accessory section layout was pure Vought.

Japan did not copy western aircraft per se, but they were wise enough to borrow useful technology, as did everyone else. Even Kurt Tank admitted to having been greatly influenced by Palmer's design (aka, the Hughes H-1). No one designs in a vacuum, not Mitchell, not Kartvelli, not Willie or even Camm. Everyone draws from the work of everyone else.

My regards,

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Old 09-19-2005, 08:26 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syscom3
one other interesting fact about the design of the Zero........ the IJN wanted the design of the airframe to allow for the engine to be changed quickly. I think it took less than 30 minutes for a complete engine change as compared to hours with the F4F.
Indeed, former Vought Engineers claim that the Zero's QEC package drew heavily from the Vought V-143 fighter prototype, sold to Japan in 1938. One Engineer stated that the entire accessory section layout was pure Vought.

Japan did not copy western aircraft per se, but they were wise enough to borrow useful technology, as did everyone else. Even Kurt Tank admitted to having been greatly influenced by Palmer's design (aka, the Hughes H-1). No one designs in a vacuum, not Mitchell, not Kartvelli, not Willie or even Camm. Everyone draws from the work of everyone else.

My regards,

NAVAIR
Agree - I read somewhere the F8F had some inspiration from the FW-190 (landing gear)
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:23 PM   #202
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the IJN wanted the design of the airframe to allow for the engine to be changed quickly. I think it took less than 30 minutes for a complete engine change as compared to hours with the F4F.
I don’t know from where “hours” to change out an F4F engine comes from. I spoke this evening with a wartime F4F maintenance type who reported that, presuming one had all one’s tools at hand, a couple of engine hoists, and a three or four of extra pairs of hands coupled with brains that knew what they were doing, you could change out, one for another, an F4F engine in under an hour, if you took your time; faster if you were in a hurry.

Frankly, incorporating ease of maintenance is not rocket science. I know of one USN F4F driver (same gent who was flying A6M2 #4593 in the fall of 1944) who had a barrier landing on the night of 7 May 1942 aboard USS Yorktown. His plane was struck below. He debriefed and then went to chow. He then went to the hangar deck to see how his plane was coming along and found the VF-42 maintenance guys were just starting to put on the cowl ring, having already replaced the engine. He hung around until the engine had been tested and then turned in. He flew that plane the next day.

Regards,

Rich
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:56 PM   #203
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Great info Rich!!!! Even if an F4F engine change took "hours" say with two guys, you got the ole CPO's mentality - "Here's six guys, get it done in an hour."
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Old 09-19-2005, 10:46 PM   #204
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It didnt matter if the F4F took four, or five hours really, becaue theyre were more planes, engines, and better trained maintenance crews to do the job. the zeros werent produced in good enough numbers, and the same can be said about the pilots, maintenance crews, and powerplants. I repsect the IJNAF and the IJAAF because they accomplished alot with what they had, but the americans, could outpace them in technology, trainign, and numbers.
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Old 09-19-2005, 10:53 PM   #205
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The IJN did have concerns about the quality of the recruits for maint. of the aircraft, thus did incorporate such things into the design, where they could.

"Frankly, incorporating ease of maintenance is not rocket science. ".... well that might be true, but it isnt always implimented. Plenty of products then and now that the design groups decided it wasnt necessary.
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Old 09-19-2005, 10:58 PM   #206
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Speaking as a maintainer - with the tools and equipment readily available, it should take under an hour to change an engine on either airplane....
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:53 PM   #207
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Yes, with the tools and equipment readily available, something the japanese lacked later on in the war. while the conditions and availability for the allies was growing...if you look at the service like of the sakae engine that powered the zeroes, or the engine of an F4F, later in the war, maintenance time, changing speed, and service life were probably all longer, due to quality of products and technicians.
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:11 AM   #208
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Having turned a wrench on the Zero a couple of times, I can tell you that there were parts that were obviously not mass machine produced. The prop spinner only fits on in one position. If you are off one screw hole, you have to keep turning until you find the right alighment. The obvious thing to do is mark the alignment before disassembly! Lesson learned. The cowling on the Zero is not a fun item to put back on. The turn buckle screws don't leave much room for turning a wrench on them.

That being said, aside from issues with hand sizes (Americans today have bigger hands than the Japanese of the 1940s, generally), it's not too bad. But our Zero has quite a few Dzus fasteners, not standard for the time on Japanese aircraft.
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Old 09-20-2005, 10:11 AM   #209
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Rich,
thank you for your search and info.
Yes, the report in my book (the great book of WW II airplanes, Crescent books, AAVV - a wonderful book specially for the many detailed drawings from R.Watanabe) is the same you linked.

I re-read the report, and I still have the impression that the zero was holding very well or outperforming the other aircrafts.
- the lower performance above 500 kmh (300mph) fall in a limited envelope of use, most of the dogfight was below that speed. It only tells that zero should not try to escape by diving and could be escaped in a steep dive, assuming there is enough space below.
- the zero SN 4593 was recovered after a forced landing due to engine trouble. The machine landed wheels down on a marsh, breaking landing gear, flipping over and breaking tail, propeller and canopy in the process: not a small damage, that had to be rebuilt without any supporting documentation. It seems fair to assume that a factory-fresh zero would have probably performed a bit better.
Consider that probably (unless the US manufacturer behaved against their natural attitude to competition ) the US fighters sent for comparison were in mint conditions.
- the engine cut-off is reported only for this zero, at least I never heard/read of this as a general problem of the machine. Also because the US pilots (.. that were NOT slow in learning) would had used this as a standard escape tactic, like the 109 pilots did with the early spits.
- Although the pilots who flew the zero were surely great pilots they did not know very well the ship, and were probably not in condition to 'squeeze' the best out of it, while the pilots in the local planes of course knew them 'like their pockets' : put a Saburo Sakai in the cockpit and the zero would had performed better in climbs and turns!

All this, specially if you read the comparison with the F4F where no numbers are given but just a kind of concerned statements (..zero was superior in speed and climb at all altitudes above 1000 ft .. superior in ceiling... no comparison between the turning circles... in combat F4F is basically dependent in mutual support..) states that at the end of 1942 the zero model 21 was at least a terrible customer for the US planes, and that the new generation of US fighters (Corsair) was better than the Zero.

What was not highlighted is the fragility of the zero in sustaing battle damage.

The problem of the japanese fighter is that it was not substantially improved in the following 3 years, with an evolution path similar to her western counterparts (because of HQ policy? because the structure could not hold more power and weight? because no better engines were available?), making it completely obsolete by 1943.
.. put a 1700hp BMW 801, some armour and metal ailerons in that frame and, if it holds together , you probably have an airplane that can match the opponents in 43-44
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Old 09-20-2005, 10:29 AM   #210
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Metal ailerons wouldn't make a difference. Even as they were, beyond about 275 MPH, the ailerons are like concrete, according to the pilot that flies our zero. Armor would help, but it adds weight, as well as a bigger engine would. These could also effect the performance of the airplane.
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