Rising Sun warbirds

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hmmm also good info there. I agree with your ideas that it must be different factors involvoved. I believe a major factor was the way the Japanese fought. If I recall in the beginning of the war they would only launch if there were bombers in the air. The US fighters could travel around and not even see a Japanese fighter. Correct me if I am wrong though.

Also Japanese tactics may have been involved in this.

My last thought on this is the Japanese aircraft such as the Zero were just not as good as some people like to think. If they were then why did they not shoot down more US aircraft? Simple they were not as good.

[syscom3]

The lack of kills by the Zero is more due to the lack of targets. After wiping out allied airpower in the region in the opening weeks of the war, there wasnt much left to shoot down. The Zero's were on the carriers, and after Pearl Harbor, up to Coral Sea, they only had two operations where they encountered significant (if you can call it that) opposition. They had operations in the Indian Ocean and against Darwin. Neither involved much air-to-air combat. By European standards, it could hardly qualify as a skirmish. It wasnt untill April/May 1942 that the AAF finally had enough fighters in Australia to actually put a squadron in the air at the same time.

A better measure of the Zero would be its kill ratio. For the first 6 months of the war, Over the PI and Java, they did well.

[Lightning Guy]

The Ki-84 is also my favorite of the Japanese aircraft. It may not of had the maneuverability of the Oscar, but it was still a match for any Allied fighter in a dogfight. And the Oscar lacked its speed, firepower, durability, etc. etc. In fact, I think the Ki-84 might have been my favorite of all single-engined fighters.

[R Leonard]

A better measure of the Zero would be its kill ratio. For the first 6 months of the war, Over the PI and Java, they did well.

And just how well was that, against what opposition?

Rich

[syscom3]

They had success against the P40's, and some Hurricanes that ended up in Sumatra.

[R Leonard]

Numbers?

[syscom3]

Im at work now. I dont have access to the book that has the numbers.

"Bloody Shambles" a two volume set. Ever see it?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by syscom3

They had success against the P40's, and some Hurricanes that ended up in Sumatra.

Originally Posted by R Leonard

Numbers?

Right.....

Here we go again

Here is an amazing wesite.....

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroo...of_tables.html

I found in there a table for 1942 Kills/ Losses

FEAF (China excluded) Fighters only (P-39s and P-40s)....

FEAF
LOSSES
Jan - 0
Feb - 44
Mar - 12
Apr - 0
May - 32
Jun - 28
Jul - 11
Aug - 11
Sep - 10
Oct - 0
Nov - 32
Dec - 8

FEAF
KILLS
Jan 0
Feb 20
Mar 14
Apr 14
May 14
Jun 20
Jul 4
Aug 41
Sep 0
Oct 6
Nov 25
Dec 54

For entire 1942 the FEAF lost 148 aircraft in air-to-air combat while destroying 212 = 1.43 to 1 FEAR vs Japan. You could slice numbers and do more research and attempt to insert Japanese aircraft by type, but considering the most numerous aircraft were the Zero and Oscar, these numbers do not represent great success by the Japanese. If you note Dec 1942, it's the month the P-38 began heavy operations.

If you go to the site the remaining years shown on these tables show a huge lop-sided picture with one month showing 130 kills for 19 losses (Aug. 1943).

You were saying?!?

[syscom3]

Thanks Flyboy. Great find.

If you look at the figures for Jan 42-May 42 (first 6 months of the war), the numbers were 88 losses and 62 kills.

Im looking for more info on actual Japanese loss's. Ive got some good leads im checking into.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by syscom3

If you look at the figures for Jan 42-May 42 (first 6 months of the war), the numbers were 88 losses and 62 kills.

And that was probably the worse of times, retreating out of the PI, developing tactics, ect. Not bad for P-39s and P-40s and "green" pilots!

[syscom3]

Heres an ultra rare color photo of a Wildcat about to be shot down. I dont think anyone has seen this before. The Zero was observed to easily maneuver to the tail of the F4F and get into shooting position. The F4F didnt have enough altitude to dive away, so its fate is sealed.

Actually, this was taken at Chino 2004. A demonstration of the Zero vs P40 and F4F. No matter how good the Wildcat and Warhawk were, if they were caught on the deck without a good head of speed, they were in serious trouble. The Zero also demonstrated its maneuverablity by easily getting out of the way of a P40 or F4F on its tail.

The Thatch weave was also demonstrated. If the F4F pilots were diciplined, they could stay out of trouble.

Note - they had both Chino Zero's take off at the same time as the P40's. The Zero's were up at 1000 ft with a full 360 turn before the P40's were in gear up condition!

[FLYBOYJ]

Saw a similar demonstration at Chino in 1982. One of the first Zeros restored back to flying condition did a demonstration with an F6F. When the F6F slowed down and turned with the Zero, the Zero easily turned inside of him. This went on for about 5 minutes, then suddenly the F6F went vertical and started using a Yo-Yo to get inside the Zero. When the Zero attempted to go vertical, you could see the F6F just overpowered the Zero. A similar demostration was done with a Corsair, but the F4U stayed right with the Zero. I don't remember who the pilots were, but one of them might of been Steve Hinton.

[Nonskimmer]

Interesting.

[syscom3]

I think I was at that airshow. I vaguely remember being at Chino right when the Zero was unveiled to the public. 1982 or 1983.

I need to go through the photo albums and see if I have anything.

[evangilder]

I would venture to guess that Steve Hinton was one of them. I have a 45 minute video of mock combat with Steve Hinton flying the Corsair and Steve Barber flying our Zero. It was footage for a movie called "The Intrepid Story".