SBD Dauntless Discussion Group

[Glider]

A carrier!!!, for a few months!!!. Try a number of carriers, in fact all we could spare from about July 1944 on including nearly all our Fleet Carriers. The RN formed a seperate task force under USN overall command but I cannot remember the Number we were given. I used to have a book on it but gave it up a number of years ago.

Maybe its not just us Europeans who can learn some new facts about the Pacific War

[Nonskimmer]

Apparently not.

British carriers of the PTO: (that I can recall)

Fleet carriers:
- HMS Illustrious
- HMS Victorious
- HMS Formidable
- HMS Idomitable
- HMS Implacable
- HMS Indefatigable

Light carriers:
- HMS Colossus
- HMS Vengeance
- HMS Venerable
- HMS Glory

And a whole mess of CVE's as well. The real action for the Royal Navy in the Pacific didn't start until late 1944, November I believe, but they arrived in force.

[evangilder]

I was thinking just one for a short time didn't seem correct, but I didn't know off the top of my head. Sounds like something for some serious study.

[Glider]

Sounds about right.
Being serious for a second I would welcome a thread on the the Pacific. It had so many firsts, I wouldn't know where to start and the scale of it just beggers the imagination, simply huge.

[syscom3]

I was reffering to early 1943 when the USN was down to 1 carrier in the SW pacific, and needed help from the RN untill the new Essex class carriers could be deployed.

Of course we can also talk about the RN carrier groups at the later stage of the pacific war

[R Leonard]

As you can no doubt guess, all of that works for me!

Rich

[Nonskimmer]

Really? Who would've thought?

[plan_D]

When the USN needed the RN? I see. You mean when the IJN diverted five of it's fleet carriers to the Indian Ocean to attack the Royal Navy there, giving the USN vital breathing space to lick it's wounds after Pearl Harbour.

Is that enough?

[syscom3]

No. In early 1943, just after the Japanese evacuated Guadalcanal, the USN had only one aircraft carrier, the USS Enterprise.

Roosevelt asked Churchill to release an aircraft carrier for a few months and put under direct command of Adm. Nimitz, to hold the line till the Saratoga and Essex became available.

That was really the only time the RN was in the SW Pacific untill late 1944.

[plan_D]

It does not matter where it happened though. The Royal Navy may not have been in the South-West Pacific in force until 1944 but they still held up the Japanese. Or at least provided time wasting targets for the IJN.

1943 was quite a vital year for the Atlantic. I wouldn't have given up one carrier!

[NAVAIR]

The Dixie Wing of the CAF is currently flying this gorgeous SBD-5.


From the Dixie Wing webpage, copyright rules apply.

If you visit their website at http://www.dixiewing.org/aircraft/sbd/ you can download several videos of flight ops.

My regards,

NAVAIR
[/url]

[Nonskimmer]

Originally Posted by plan_D

1943 was quite a vital year for the Atlantic. I wouldn't have given up one carrier!

Actually, the Victorious operated in the Pacific for a time in mid 1943. She was sent to support USS Saratoga. I forget the exact details of the operation, but it lasted for a couple of months. Between May and June?

Oh R Leonard, where are you?

Nice pic NAVAIR.

[syscom3]

I know the pics suck, but it was the best I could do. The folks at Chino couldn't control the early morning haze.

I will check my old photo albums to see if there are better ones that I can scan for you.

[plan_D]

I was saying that I wouldn't have given up a single carrier, NS. And yes, RL, needs to be here to sort all of this out.

[R Leonard]

okay . . .

HMS Victorious operations in the Solomons, 1943: After refitting at Norfolk Navy Yard (Portsmouth, VA) in the winter 1942-43, HMS Victorious (Capt. L.D. MacIntosh, RN) arrived at Pearl Harbor on 4 March 1943 in response to a December 1942 USN request for the loan of a carrier until the Essex class carriers started to be ready for combat duty. After re-equipping with US airplanes and a work-up period in Hawaiian waters, Victorious operated with USS Saratoga in the Solomons area from 17 May through 31 July, 1943. These carriers operated as TF-36 under RAdm DeWitt Ramsey, USN. There were no major sea engagements during this period. Most of the action was in the central Solomons with USN and USMC aircraft operating out of Cactus and Knucklehead. Saratoga and Victorious primarily served as a backstop against any possible sortie by Japanese carrier forces, though they did provide cover for the invasion of Munda. Many sources, books, and especially the internet, will throw out that Victorious was re-named USS Robin as a security precaution. My source, who was flying fighters in the vicinity in the same period reported that “Robin” was the radio call sign for Victorious. This later became a joke as the ship was referred to as USS Robin, but there was never anything official. (Which makes a little more sense, I can’t see the RN going along with re-naming one of their RN commanded and manned ships as USS anything) Others will report that this joint operation goes unmentioned in US histories, however, I’d point out that it is covered in the more thorough naval histories of the period. A quick random survey in my library of US type histories, grabbing just four off the shelf, the info appears in all four. Descriptions of the operations shows up as early as 1946 in volume 2 of Capt. Walter Karig's five volume "Battle Report' series, "Pacific War- Middle Phase". Also shows up in the German source, Rohwer & Hummelchen's "Chronik des Seekriegs 1939-45" (Chronology of the War at Sea 1939-1945).

and

OOB TF-37 during operations off the coast of Japan, July-August 1945 (all named are RN unless otherwise noted)

Commander Carrier Task Force 37 - VAdm Sir Bernard Rawlings, KCB, KBE

Implacable - Capt CC Hughes-Hallett, CBE
-38th Naval Fighter Wing - Lt Cdr RM Crosley, DSC (w/Bar)
--880 Squadron (Seafire) - Lt Cdr Crosley
--801 Squadron (Seafire) - Lt Cdr S Jewers, RNVR
--828 Squadron (TBM) - Lt Cdr FA Swanton, DSC
--1771 Squadron (Firefly) - Lt Cdr WRJ MacWhirter, DSC

Indefatigable Capt QD Graham, CBE, DSO
-24th Naval Fighter Wing - Lt Cdr NG Hallett, DSC (w/Bar)
--887 Squadron (Seafire) - Lt Cdr AJ Thomson, DSC, RNVR
--894 Squadron (Seafire) - Lt Cdr J Crossman, DSO, RNVR
--820 Squadron (TBM) - Lt FL Jones, DSC (w/Bar), RNVR
--1770 Squadron (Firefly) - Maj VBG Chessman, DSO, MBE, DSC, RM

Victorious Capt MM Denny, CB, CBE
-47th Naval Fighter Wing - Lt Col RC Hay, DSO (w/Bar), DSC, RM
--1834 Squadron (F4U) - Lt Cdr PN Charlton, DFC
--1836 Squadron (F4U) - Lt Cdr JB Edmundson, DSC
--849 Squadron (TBM) - Lt Cdr AJ Griffiths, RN

Formidable Capt P Ruck-Keene
-6th Naval Fighter Wing - Lt Cdr RL Bigg-Wither, DSC (w/Bar), RNVR
--1841 Squadron (F4U) - Lt Cdr Bigg-Wither
--1842 Squadron (F4U) - Lt Cdr DG Parker, DSC, RNVR
--848 Squadron (TBM) - Lt Cdr TGV Percy

King George V (FltFlg) Capt BB Schofield, CBE
ComCruSquad4 - RAdm EJP Brind, CB CBE
Newfoundland (FlgCruSqd4) Capt RW Ravenhill, CBE, DSC
-Black Prince Capt GV Gladstone
-Euryalas Capt RS Warne, CBE
-Achilles (RNZN) Capt FJ Butler, MBE
-Uganda (RCN) Capt ER Mainguy, RCN
-Gambia (RNZN) Capt RAB Edwards, CBE
Grenville (4thDesFlot) Capt RG Onslow, DSO
-Udine Cdr TC Robinson, DSC
-Urania Lt Cdr DHP Gardiner, DSC
-Urchin Lt Cdr AF Harkness, OBE, DSC, RD, RNVR
-Ulysses Lt Cdr BGB Bordes, DSC
-Undaunted Lt Cdr CER Sharp
-Quiberon (RAN) Cdr GS Stuart, RAN
-Quickwatch (RAN) Lt Cdr OH Becher, DSC, RAN
-Quality Cdr Viscount Jocelyn
-Quadrant Lt Cdr PC Hopkins
Troubridge (2DesFlot) Capt GF Burghard
-Tenacious Lt Cdr GC Crowley, DSC
-Termagent Lt Cdr DC Beatty, DSC
-Terpsichore Cdr RT White, DSC
-Teazer Lt Cdr TF Taylor, DSC

I could probably conjure up an OOB for TF-57 during the Okinawa campaign, but I don’t have one handy. It would be similar to the above.

Rich